Within our range, once we called the flop raise, i personally would have Tp/2pair/straight/FD

On the turn with villain checked. I would bet the Js most of the time as it hits my personal range very well, as it at least improved me to 2pair at the very least.

On the River, given that we got counterfeited, I am not at the bottom of my raise calling range on the flop, but anything else, and I don't think we beat much of the villains range at this point.

I would turn my hand into a bluff to push out a better Q.

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I think its spew. I check the turn behind and take the free card.

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players - View hand 2583673
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $17.75 - VPIP: 37, PFR: 7, 3B: 9, AF: 3,0, Hands: 27
MP: $22.25 - VPIP: 8, PFR: 7, 3B: 4, AF: 2,4, Hands: 20643
CO: $31.27 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 8, 3B: 2, AF: 1,8, Hands: 108
Hero (BTN): $25.00 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2,9, Hands: 1000119
SB: $51.34 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 3,1, Hands: 1315
BB: $36.53 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 12, 3B: 3, AF: 1,4, Hands: 11522
UTG: $24.30 - VPIP: 10, PFR: 9, 3B: 5, AF: 3,9, Hands: 8820

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with J 8
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.40, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.75) 2 J K (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $1.25, SB calls $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1.25

Turn: ($5.50) 3 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3.75, SB raises to $10.30, UTG+1 raises to $16, Hero folds, SB calls $5.70

River: ($41.25) 6 (2 players)

Final Pot: $41.25
UTG+1 shows J K
SB shows K Q
UTG+1 wins $39.39
(Rake: $1.86)


I decided to fold the turn, because both players are uncapped. I never would expect the Regular in the SB to Raise without a flush. So i was very surprised here. Do you fold here? Did i miss something?

If it would have been the other way around (UTG+1 raises and SB cold 3-bet on the turn), I would have folded in a heartbeat.

This way, it's a tough decision. Still probably a fold, but closer.

snapfold, so sick. like utg raises u 3bet kk, btn cold4bets, bb 5bet-ships, utg calls. u fold and they have ak and ak

You are a bigger hero than I could ever be. 3rd nuts? Dayumm

Making folds that are wrong hurts, but is often a signal you are in a good mood. Lets change the perspective: Does the reg makes a good raise there?

I honestly don't think it's a bad fold. In the long run, making fold like this will make(save) you more money than a call does.

But saying that, I think it's a very spewy raise from the BB's perspective, not many people fold flush in 25nl which he's relying on you to be able to do. It's clear that he's trying to squeeze out the reg and Hu with the fish. But damn, a flush?

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bad raise imo. just too many strong hands out there on the turn.
the fish could even be x/r with aa or ak bec he dont know better. so simple fold 4 the reg

He has a blocker to the second nuts and would probly only gets raised by the nuts with this line. If called and the river is a heart he can pretty easily fold to a bet.

yeah he only get raised by the nuts... is this an argument for a good raise? i mean he gets called by tons of hands where is virtually drawing dead

Yeah Filojoes, you make a good point; it's pretty risky and high variance and relies on hero folds to some extent (not really crazy in micro frnl vs solid regs, imo)

...BUT, it's not pure spew:

-he can fold to a raise w/o thinking twice since he's turning his hand into a bluff imo

-he mostly just gets called by an A of hearts imo, that isn't a "ton of hands"

-neither Crusher or other v has taken a line that suggests that they likely have that card (why lead or raise w/nuts or Ah in this spot? why not keep both opponents in pot?),

-V is only drawing dead to the bigger flush plus he's ahead of a bare Ah.

I think that it's an ok raise mostly because I'm under the impression that it was meant to split the opponents ranges and force them to turn their hands face up and make some hero folds (which he succeeded at vs. Crusher), he just ran into a weird drawing hand that had outs to the hand he was trying to rep (Ah flush).

I really thought about this, cause he folds out the fish very often if he raises here and just get called by the reg with A-high flushs.

So i fold not that often in this spot, cause the reg doesnt "should" play A-high flushs in that way.

Overthinking it, i dont like his raise, cause he can be drawing dead, beaten by the fish, (the reg could call a set here, given the odds, just small mistake) and his line doesnt makes much sense.

oic, true, he's up against ah from you too often and fish calls too much and correctly given the price he's getting and it is a pretty suspect line but I think it's a better line vs you than the fish because he has a blocker to the nut bluff catcher (qh) and the fish could still potentially raise behind if you opt to call lighter than nutted. I would think also that "bluffing w/the nut bluff-catcher-blocker" is pretty much fps for micro frnl, but vs you he may feel the need to be unpredictable for lack of a better plan.

Really great stuff in this thread btw and ty for responding to my post

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 Spieler) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://de.flopturnriver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP3 ($61.17)
CO ($37.98)
Button ($62.27)
SB ($85.24)
Hero (BB) ($57.51)
UTG ($66.12)
UTG+1 ($50)
MP1 ($34.72)
MP2 ($24.87)

Preflop: Hero ist BB mit Q, K
6 folds, Button raises $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $4.50, Button calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.25) 8, 10, J (2 Spieler)
Hero bets $7, Button calls $7

Turn: ($24.25) 7 (2 Spieler)
Hero bets $15.75, Button calls $15.75

River: ($55.75) 3 (2 Spieler)
Hero checks, Button checks

I decided to bet flop & turn and give up the river. Villain playes 16-11, raises 50% 1st in on the BTN, fold to 3bet 40% and has WTSD 26%

After i saw the flop i decided to bet flop and turn, expecting him to fold a lot of turns. After the hand i asked myself, what he could fold on the turn? So what line you would recommend in this situation?

i would always x/f or seldom x/c (if he bets ridic small). years of practice show me villain is never folding this turn. if u x the river he could potentially always jam on u cause u look like give up or aa at best. but most of the time this turn simply improves his range and seldom urs. if u bet turn i would jam river cause he can fold something. question is if hero has the guts for this. i 4 sure would not and x/f river.

what about x/r/f flop?
say he bets 6 and we raise to 15. can we fold to shove? i would guess his shoving range is combodraws and 2p+ so we should be crushed 90%.
gut feeling tells me best line is bet flop, x/f turn

im wondering if turn bet has a purpose? not much left in villain's range that will be folding, so its not going to a +EV bluff. not much left in villain's range that you are beating, so its not going to be a +EV value bet. i don't think betting turn to set up river bluff is likely to be +EV b/c of combination of not having a big enough barrel left on river and lot of hand-making cards to come.

i wonder if calling rather than raising preflop would be better? you are only going to be 50% vs. V's continuing range, and while you do get some re-steal equity by raising, you are going to be playing your 50/50 situation OOP vs. a not-too-foldy villain when called (60% of the time). idk if that justifies not 3betting.

i also would consider not betting this flop. again, you are 50% on this flop at best. wouldn't be a surprise to see that your equity was as bad as 40%, even with your OESD and overs. this flop smacks V's range solidly. you have very little fold equity (a few small pairs and some AXs that didn't flop flush draws is about it). so, flop bet doesn't seem very good for either value or bluff. why do it then? if you think he will bet vs. missed cbet with entire range, you can consider c/r big. this could generate the fold equity you need to go with your 45% equity and make it a +EV. if he checks through, you also win, getting to realize more of your equity for free. just check/calling doesn't feel good either as all of your outs are either dirty (spades) or obvious (9's mostly), so your implied odds OOP aren't likely to be great.

thoughts? im new, so more than happy to have my ideas shown to be incorrect.

If i was vill I would fold that turn cause you should not have bet this in the first place lol

i like

I agree on Filojoes thought process, dont like barreling his board, hits villains peeling range too much.

i did my math very fast, so i may have made some mistakes.. but with the assumptions that V bets 100% on flop when checked to and calls our check/shove with any set, any flush draw, any 2 pair, and any combo draw (such as pair plus straight draw).. that line is +$6.50 ish

of course, finding a +EV line isn't the name of the game. finding the MOST +EV line is!

fwiw, i had V calling the shove with about 35% of his range (folding the other 65%). and our equity vs. his calling range was about 35%. so, rough EV equations was:

EV = .65 (17.50) + .35[.35(63) + .65(-53)]

Interesting thoughts!

1. @filojoes: you really jam the river? I just have left 30$ left, pot is 56$.. So it has to work 34%. You think this gonna work? I agree, he doesnt seems to be that strong there.

2. What you think about jamming a "Q" on the river and a spade and bet turn smaller?

3. Checkraising Flop, then we have to call the All In, i think. I dont like it very much. But yes, it might be the best line here. He will bet - fold at least 30% of the time. So we win 17$, and given he calls the Raise All-IN (i would always jam) like 70% of the time and we might have 35% Equity (not more, vs. FD, Sets, 2 Pair, TPTK, OP).. So its - EV too i think:

(0,30 * 17$) + (0,70 * -10$) = - 1,90$ :-)

*-10 = 45$ for 100$ Pot, with 35% Equity

At the end i agree, bet flop, X/F Turn. After he just calls the flop, he not often has a strong hand. Usually i attack this weakness, but here give up might be better.

..yeah it really depends how often we expect him bet-folding the flop.. with like 45% our line is +EV. But its high variance too.

i would never bet the turn but when i would do (lol) then i would ship the river as well beacuse he can fold some hands like staioned jx or some fd.
but yeah then bet turn smaller so he dont make those "odd-calls"

if this guy is aggr and just calls the turn then iwould ship spades aswell cause i would guess he his raising his fd at flop or turn, so he his often sitting on sets or 2p that r worthless on the river spade.

i would ship a q too for the same reason vs aggro guys.

Shipping a river Q? You only have TP2K. Are you bluffing repping a 9? Or for thin value because you put villain on a J?