2000 USD stacks both

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K K
UTG folds, Hero raises to $70, 3 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: T 4 5 ($170, 2 players)
Hero bets $120, CO calls.

Turn: T ($410, 2 players)
Hero bets $200, CO calls.

River: J ($810, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $450, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $1710



i think this i so standard but i have not much experience with a fullring game. Sometimes i am really suprised about peoples play. villians stats 14/6/1
The line he took...i dunno
even if this is a standard if want to hear opinions about his HAND RANGE.

Fold river, I think.

His hand range when he calls the flop and turn is [44-JJ]. There's really no reason for him to half pot bluff river with 77 here, and he's not aggro enough to make a move like that anyway.

Aside: If he had 44 or 55, I think he was correct to not raise the turn. Usually you have the type of hand you had and are bet/folding on that turn.

Any reads here?
I'm pretty sure I lean towards bet/fold on the river, although I take this line sometimes, but usually on a more drawy board. On the flop, I'd put most people on 44, 55, 88-QQ, with it being a tad more weighted to the lower side, as I think QQ repops preflop a lot, and you'd think an overpair would lead or raise this flop. Your small turn bet might look like a weak double barrel from AK/AQ and he might think his 88 is still good.

Now on the river though, you check and he bets. By checking, you're pretty much hoping to induce a bluff and are calling, otherwise you should be betting. The board isn't really draw heavy though, so I don't really understand his bet on the river. If he thought you missed your overcards, why is he betting? Like I said, reads would really help in assigning a range to him, but assuming a decent player, I'm calling here because of the price though and would expect to be shown JJ 40% of the time and QQ 40% of the time, and 44-55 about 15% of the time. That leaves about a 2% chance of TT and 3% chance of AA-KK.

At least somewhere around there. Of course, I'm often an idiot, so take it all with a grain of salt.


EDIT: I missed the villain's stats in your post. Having seen that, it's much closer to a fold. He probably checks behind with QQ here considering the 1 AF. You're looking at 44, 55, TT or JJ here the majority of the time.

People have low self-esteem on this forum.

explain plz

And there are a bunch of posts like this. Need to build up that self-condfidence.

I think he was referring to me calling myself an idiot.

It was really just a way of saying that at NL200 where I play, that's what I'd expect to see, but have no clue about stakes 10x that.

Would a JJ/QQ bet the river? What amount?

Would KTs/ATs/any FH raise the turn here?

Bet more on turn.

Pretty standard though.

Why should i bet more on turn? no real draws and i create a bigger pot on the river.

I would think any T would have raised turn. JJ is the 2nd nuts here, so of course he's going to bet and I'd expect to see a pretty smallish value bet like you saw. QQ might bet, even though I doubt it, and if it did, I'd also expect to see a smallish bet like you saw because not many worse hands call a bigger bet, if any.

eeehhh my mistake JJ sure he bets.so i ask for QQ (99 maybe but not against a player with these stats).

b/f river for 500

OP can I ask what site this is?

everest. Do you find this question so basic?looking for a soft game? :-)

the way you have explained yourself in the hh threads you posted would suggest to me that you need to move down in stakes, no offense intended.

with no postflop reads on this guy i like bet flop check turn bet river, because it gets two streets of value from his entire range.

You could also just bet every street. Im not sure i dig the c/c on the river. Its probably b/f > c/f ~= c/c.

In general when you include a villain's stats try to say over how big a sample. I'm guessing that you've played few enough hands with the villain that the AF of 1 isn't very meaningful.

I agree with GM and another poster who said to bet/fold the river, though personally I feel like I'm bet/folding a little too much and need to check/call some of these spots (but probably not versus this opponent if those stats are reliable, here I think you should always be bet/folding).

You're usually ahead here on the turn and looking to build a larger pot, that's why too eazy suggested betting more, and at least for most 2+2ers a larger bet would be standard (probably minimum $240 for most players). A larger turn bet will also lead to your river value bet (if you make one) being larger and you wind up with a much bigger pot. Also the more you bet on the turn the less likely he is to raise you without trips and the easier it is for you to fold if he does raise.

@renton
i appreciate your comment. i have to think about that.

@holdem2000

good explanation. thank you



I choose a greater time period at PT.
560 hands. 15/6.4(total AF) flop turn rive r1.8/2.1/14(yes 14)

bet/fold and check/call are both fine, it depends on the flow of the game on which one you should choose. Against certain villans a check/fold is also acceptable but this is very rare and very player dependant.

Do you call a bet on the turn and bet river?

not everest, FTP

More often I will I check/call the turn. Then I usually bet/fold the river (this can be a problem, however, if opponent is willing to bluff raise blocking bets), or check/call the river.

But, the line you took is fine, too.

I wouldn't fold at the river as played, either.

On the flop, when he floats your cb, I'd put him on ...

missed high cards, like AK or AQ looking to spike a pair on the turn, or maybe steal if you check/fold the turn,

any medium-sized pair (66-QQ) looking to float/steal or float/fold on the turn if he doesn't have a set or an overpair, but looking to call you down (or raise) the turn with a set or an overpair,

top pair (AT,KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,T8s),

OESD (67s).

Note: QQ might have reraised preflop, but maybe not. KK and AA probably reraise preflop, so I doubt that he has those.

When he calls the board pairing turn, now the missed high cards other than AJ are out. The mid-pairs that didn't make sets are out. And the OESD is probably no longer an option unless he's a habitual chaser who chases straight draws without good pot or implied odds on a paired board. Plus, if he was floating light on the flop, then he'd either fold or make a move on the board-pairing turn. That means he probably has something and is either slow playing or trying to manage the pot size.

That leaves...
QQ-you are ahead,
AJ (or other XJ broadway hand)-you are ahead unless the X is a T,
JJ-you are behind,
TX-you are behind,
maybe 67s-you are ahead.

On the river, I think his range might no longer include the Jx hands unless it is JT. I think AJ, for example, might just check behind for a show down. That leaves QQ,JJ,TX,67s(or other busted draw of some kind) as the most likely hands villain might have. I don't have pokerstove to see if KK vs that range has enough equity to call the river bet, but my gut feeling is that it's just barely enough.

You play on FTP? If so whats your name?

sry m8 ;-)


result 44

with his stats i guess he raise/bet sets/fh on the river if the board is dry.