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nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold

07-30-2016 , 06:27 PM
Here are two examples of hands, a situation I'm in often. I cbet ~87% of the time, I never know in these spots (TPGK) if I want a call or a fold. I am happy to take down the pot, but I will eventually need to know how to bet size to get desired result (call or fold). As is now, I cbet whether or not I hit, from 1/2-3/4 of the pot. Obviously when I take it down with air/high card I'm happy. But what about TPGK? I'm playing at a short table because I'm working off a $10 freeroll/bonus and I don't have a lot of money left in my account. I'm a fish and I need help. Thanks!!

Example 1:
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 147 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BB: 39.5 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
Hero (UTG): 28.5 BB
CO: 50 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 20.31, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 65)
BTN: 65.5 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K J

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, fold, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (8 BB, 3 players) 3 K 8
BB checks, Hero bets 4 BB


Example 2:
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 146.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: 40.5 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
Hero (BB): 32 BB
UTG: 51 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 21.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 61)
CO: 60.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, SB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (5 BB, 2 players) A 9 6
SB checks, Hero bets 4 BB
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
07-30-2016 , 06:46 PM
I went through the same thing going through freerolls and having to play short for the first couple hundred hands.

Both hands look good. Hand 1, the flop is wet, but it's better for your hand than Kc8s7s for instance, there's less guesswork on the turn. If you get called by BTN, you're OOP on the turn and it gets trickier. His range will be kings or flush draws vast majority of the time. But don't worry about it until it happens. Just as easily, BTN could fold and BB calls, you're heads up in position vs. BB and chances are you'll play turn and river optimally.

Too broader pieces of advice: especially now where your bankroll is vulnerable, play very tight from early position. You have KJs UTG, chances are you'll get one caller from MP through BTN, and you'll have this exact problem a lot.

Is my kicker good?

Should I cbet?

Whereas with KQ and AK there is much less uncertainty.

Also, you should normalize your c-bet sizing. Flop 1 you bet 50% pot, Flop 2 you bet 80% pot. Pick one and go with it.
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
07-30-2016 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinZip4Lyfe
I went through the same thing going through freerolls and having to play short for the first couple hundred hands.

Both hands look good. Hand 1, the flop is wet, but it's better for your hand than Kc8s7s for instance, there's less guesswork on the turn. If you get called by BTN, you're OOP on the turn and it gets trickier. His range will be kings or flush draws vast majority of the time. But don't worry about it until it happens. Just as easily, BTN could fold and BB calls, you're heads up in position vs. BB and chances are you'll play turn and river optimally.

Too broader pieces of advice: especially now where your bankroll is vulnerable, play very tight from early position. You have KJs UTG, chances are you'll get one caller from MP through BTN, and you'll have this exact problem a lot.

Is my kicker good?

Should I cbet?

Whereas with KQ and AK there is much less uncertainty.

Also, you should normalize your c-bet sizing. Flop 1 you bet 50% pot, Flop 2 you bet 80% pot. Pick one and go with it.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I will tighten up preflop that's for sure. Like you said it only leads to tricky situations.

As far as normalizing my cbet sizing, I thought I was supposed to have a balanced range of cbets, keep them guessing kind of thing (I know that's a wasted effort at 2nl but still want to get in the habit). So I switch between the 50-80% sizing whether I hit or not. Is normalizing normal?
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
07-31-2016 , 05:35 PM
H1: Flop is not wet at all, it is actually really dry. Cbetting is ok. BB is going to have alot of pairs that he will call with and some FD-s, but also some stronger Kx.
H2: Raise more preflop. I am going for 3 streets of value here BvB.

My advice for you OP is too save up some money and put it in your account so you have a decent bankroll to start with, and so you don't have to play at these short tables.
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
07-31-2016 , 05:37 PM
Raising hands like QJs and KJs from UTG should be profitable, but you need to be deeper. You're going to be pot-committed on the turn/river at 25bb deep too often.

Having a standard cbet and open sizing is normal across most stakes. Balancing usually refers to hand ranges, not bet sizing ranges.

If you cbet 60% for example with AA or 98s on Ks10d7h, they won't know which one you have. That inherently makes you harder to read.

You want to pick a c-bet sizing that strikes a good balance between extracting value from dominated hands/draws when you have a strong hand, and getting folds for a good price on your bluff when you miss.

However, I would say it's less optimal because with 80%, you require .8/(1+.8)=44.4% of folds to breakeven on your play vs .6/(1+0.6)=37.5% of folds required with a 60% pot bet.

A lot of hands that would fold anyway to a 60% pot cbet would fold to an 80% pot bet - however, you will lose more when you c-bet into a flopped set/2pair/huge draw that checkraises you and forces you to fold.

If you get called with on a .8*pot bet, your turn barrel will be more expensive if you decide to fire again. Or if you flop TPTK then get checkraised, and decide to call the turn, the pot is very bloated and you're often put to a tough decision with less maneuverability.
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
07-31-2016 , 08:09 PM
I generally like to c-bet most boards with K/Q or A. Sometimes check for balance.
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
07-31-2016 , 10:08 PM
Save your money till your at least rolled for 5nl and start at 2nl if you wish. Your not gonna get far short stacking 2nl, and your certainly not gonna get very good. It'd probly be best to start at HUSNGs or double/triple-up SNGs to build a roll.

Stop cbetting so much. Cbetting a standardized size is fine, but against fish not paying attention it doesn't matter. 2/3 to 3/4 is pretty standard in SRP's and smaller sizing is used for 3bet and 4bet pots. Try and use a more polarized cbetting strategy.


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nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote
08-01-2016 , 05:07 AM
If you short stack, you´re gonna have to tighten up your pf range a lot.
And your cbet % is way too high.
Don´t worry about balancing, it´s NL2.
nl2: cbet, never know if I want a call or fold Quote

      
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