Poker Stars $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 2017693
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MP2: $1054.98
Hero (CO): $1059.88
BTN: $1092.05
SB: $1067.60
BB: $766.77
UTG: $334.48
UTG+1: $1107.87
MP1: $1015.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is CO with K T
4 folds, Hero raises to $25, BTN raises to $75, 2 folds, Hero calls $50

Flop: ($165.00) 2 K 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $80, Hero calls $80

Turn: ($325.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $170, Hero calls $170

River: ($665.00) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $767.05 all in



(might be wrong forum? mid-high fr forum sucks)


villain is a 21/18/8 or something very aggressive reg. he's 3betting me something like 10-12% in this particular spot, unpolarized (which means he has a ****load of Ax).

important stuff is:
-he's betting the flop almost 100%
-i have a note he only bets half the pot with crap
-he's been barreling me twice in similar spots (including two ace high 3betpots). which means boards where most people only fire one barrel.
-i saw him check behind random Ax in similar spots, so im not sure he's valuebetting A5s for eg. even if he does, i don't think he's overbet shoving for value.

id prob raise up flop. as played i call.

with your reads i would fold pre and fold river as played.

lol@folding pre... and river is a pretty std call vs this villian

raising flop is bad considering villain is firing at least two barrels. i'd do it as a bluff, though.

folding pre is meh

You should have jammed all but one penny, then folded if he raised, cuznthen youud know if u were beat

What is this rubbish?? Jam all but 10p because you get the same result but then save yourself an extra 9p!!

meh, my grandma can troll better than that. not funny

your logic is terrible. if he is always firing two you should raise turn with your bluffs, not flop. and you could also raise KT ott here.

river is a legitimate question. I would think it's a fold as you probably checkcall two here with a lot of Ahi, so you probably don't need to call KT. But maybe you also have all pocket pairs here, making KT a call.

yeah, my thought process was very bad. raising turn as a bluff is definitely better than raising flop if he's betting twice.

4-bet pre. As played fold river.

As played, call the river bet and the rest (except maybe the pre-flop call) is solid play.

If you fold the river, then what are you calling with?

folding is extremely exploitable indeed, but i'd rather be exploitable and buy myself a nice house then be inexploitable and live in a bad neighborhood :P

Well don't think you're right or wrong from the results of the hand. If you're not exploitable, in the long run, you'll be able to buy a lot of things.

If a play isn't exploitable, then worst you can do is break even.

I think ur hand is just a little bit to good to 4bet bluff pre. As played i don t think u make the calls w A highs here till the river, so that makes it a call. If u think that villain thinks u r calling A highs twice it is a fold, but that will happen very rarely...He also might try to get u of pocket pairs and some K...

Is calling pre even good here. If we stove a 12% range against KTs we have 37% equity now granted he isn't going to be 3-betting the top 12% of his range which would be a silly thought don't you think KTs is going to be dominated too often against this standard 3-bet range. Coupled with the fact we are going to be out of position the entire hand and if we hit any pair we still don't even know if we are good to a triple barrel? Just seems like we are bound to spew off chips with this hand which I think if the image is right for us makes 4-betting a whole lot better.

i'm a lil surprised at some of the replies in this thread about preflop.

i wouldnt think KTs would be good enough to call at all. question then is: is it good enough to 4bet bluff with? Don't think we have enough info on villain to really say.

river is meh, i think the whole exploitable/unexploitable argument said it all.

I think calling pre is totally standard, and I'm never finding a fold on this river

im with abe on this one boys.

pf is a fold to me, too.
oop against an aggro player even when you flop tp your hand will not be that strong to cr 4 value or to get it in on turn imo and you would face a lot of tought river decision when you xc twice...
it is prolly profitable 4b pre because he has to shove like 6% range in that spot and seems a lot to me..
as played river is a fold

: Kd 2s 3s 2c Ah
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.735% 26.53% 10.20% 26 10.00 { KcTc }
Hand 1: 63.265% 53.06% 10.20% 52 10.00 { TT+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, J9s, ATo+, KJo+ }


agaist his total pf range we have this ridiculus equity.

so even if on this river we are exploitable:
1) he need an A on the river to exploit us, not gonna happen a lot
2) since its a prolly good spot to 4b and he is happy to barrel we can call pre with some QQ+,AK as well and on this flop xc down even with KK+,AK
3) ok if we fold we are exploitable to his bluffs but if we call we are exploitable 4 his value hands: if he knows that we never(or close to) have better than KQ and that we call with KTs there he can shove 4 value with KQ+ there and that is a lot of his range

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 11.111% 04.76% 06.35% 3 4.00 { KcTc }
Hand 1: 88.889% 82.54% 06.35% 52 4.00 { KK+, A7s+, KQs, QsJs, QsTs, Js9s, ATo+, KQo }

also a lot of hands that we beat is prolly slowing down at some point(K9s, is prolly checking back turn or river,QQ JJ i think are checking back the turn almost always(i mean is insane to think that he bets flop with QQ Jj TT to turn them into bluffs on turn when they still have sdv and same 4 K9s on the river, so just some naked fd are left in his range and even if he is shoving with them is still a fold. if we call there we are losing 767$ almost 80% and win 20% 1432 so our EV is -327
and the EV of his total range is 992.2 that is def better than the 665 we fold....


also you can even tell him: on K23ds if you 2barrel btn vs co in a 3b pot and an A lands on the river you can exploit me by shoving because i am folding a lot....that's not easy to exploit imho...if i am wrong tell me how plz

I think C/C the whole way puts you in a very bad spot on this river. You scream mediocre K or a PP trying to get to showdown. What hands does he barrel w/ that you beat? Being that it is a 3 bet pot I'd assume he has many Ax hands that he would barrel. He has a few K's and PP's in his range too, but I think he is value shoving an A that he barreled more often than he is bluffing w/ a medium PP.

If I were in his shoes I wouldn't think the A changed anything for your hand, so I would assume your C/C range on the flop and turn is going to call on the river because the A isn't really a scare card to you. That thinking also makes this a great value shove spot.

IMO at best you are calling for a chop and he knows this so he shoves the river since you basically played your hand face up. Worst case obviously he barreled and got there. I think you lose or split this pot far more often than you win it. If you thought he was barreling, why not C/R turn so you could have a better gauge on his range and not be in such a gross spot on the river?

C/r turn doesn't make tons of sense to me because it folds out his air, which is a good portion of his range given our information. We only get in a tough spot if an ace hits the river, which isn't a very large portion of the time.

If we can c/r flop based on betting patterns often then I don't mind calling pre.

Just because ace high may be part of your range, the villain doesn't necessarily know that. Your perceived range to me is Kx, random pocket pairs, and maybe some busted draws (although you would have raised him earlier with draws). As far as I'm concerned you're at the top of your range, so I would feel obligated to pay off the river bet.

I agree C/R OTT is going to fold out his air, but how often is he firing a 3rd barrel w/ air OTR after we call 2 streets on a K high board in a 3bet pot? If say a 4 hits the river does he still shove? I don't think we lose much value by C/R because he can't continue his bluff OTT w/ very many cards and expect a fold from us given previous action. If he does call our C/R we can better define his range an eliminate all Ax except AK, which makes the river call much easier.

Interesting hand and good discussion.

He should be able to jam this river with any Ax Kx making it very hard to call. I doubt this exact spot comes up often enough to make us exploitable though. I fold everytime.

Well OP, we've had awhile to discuss and pretty much covered any possible play.What happened?