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[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) [NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?)

03-05-2019 , 05:34 AM
PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - €0.05/€0.10 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: €14.91 (149 bb)
MP: €25.98 (260 bb)
CO: €3.58 (36 bb)
BU: €10.99 (110 bb)
SB: €10.00 (100 bb)
BB (Hero): €12.80 (128 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.15) Hero is BB with 8 K
4 players fold, SB raises to €0.24, Hero calls €0.14

Flop: (€0.48) 7 8 3 (2 players)
SB bets €0.24, Hero raises to €0.80, SB raises to €2.40, Hero?
__________

Raise flop yes or no? once he 3bets is it just a fold or do we want to continue IP?
Villain's a decent reg, fairly aggressive postflop.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 07:31 AM
start with a call
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 07:38 AM
This seems like such a standard flop call
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 07:57 AM
You’re over repping your hand. If it was Q high or J high, say Jxx and you had KJo, I think solvers like raising some % of the time but an 8 high board when Villain has every overpair is just way too thin.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:27 AM
Mmm is it that wrong to mix some raises with 8x on a wet board? especially if we want to raise some fd/sd/combodraw, 87/88/77/33 isn't enough to balance I guess? or should we just lean more towards calling vs villain's range?
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:31 AM
idk whats happening in this thread but raise flop is fine...
I think ppl have forgotten that this is bvb
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:36 AM
I don't think raising is that bad. Our hand almost always gets worse on future streets and V's range is very wide sb vs bb. Getting him to fold two overs is favorable, especially if we think he is aggressive and likely to barrel multiple streets with air.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
idk whats happening in this thread but raise flop is fine...
I think ppl have forgotten that this is bvb
Dude you were the first to say "start with a call". :O
Am I being leveled?
Oh wait, maybe you were referring to the 3bet.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:39 AM
ye facing the 3bet...
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 01:56 PM
What's the worst hand we should be raising for value on this flop?
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 02:09 PM
I’m not sure about this specific combo on the flop. We would obviously rather have a in our hand and wouldn’t we rather have 98-J8? We have more equity when our kicker can backdoor into a straight draw or our can backdoor into a Flush. So those would be raised first OTF.

Maybe we could split our range by just calling Q8-A8/raising 98-J8,because the Q-A our good barreling cards for our opponent? I don’t think I raise enough on flops like these, I’ll run a SIM on this spot when I get home and post it.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakelol
What's the worst hand we should be raising for value on this flop?
This one probably.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr
This one probably.
Which means we could actually let it go when villain 3bets.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 08:48 PM
So we just give up all turns now bar K or 8?
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 08:53 PM
This is why we don’t raise the flop. When we get 3bet we have no clue how to respond. We shouldn’t do much raising on this flop in general.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
This is why we don’t raise the flop. When we get 3bet we have no clue how to respond. We shouldn’t do much raising on this flop in general.
Precisely. Bizzare spot because the pots bloated and we hate all turns. Why not just flat and keep in his air balls and semi bluffs if he’s aggro
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:19 PM
Because then we end up having to bluff catch with a hand that turns into 3rd pair most of the time.

We win so often with a raise that the rare times we get 3bet don't really matter. I think we can exploitatively fold to the 3bet because at these stakes the population doesn't balance correctly. If this guy happens to be balancing correctly we should be pretty indifferent to calling or folding with this hand.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-05-2019 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplelessons
Because then we end up having to bluff catch with a hand that turns into 3rd pair most of the time.

We win so often with a raise that the rare times we get 3bet don't really matter. I think we can exploitatively fold to the 3bet because at these stakes the population doesn't balance correctly. If this guy happens to be balancing correctly we should be pretty indifferent to calling or folding with this hand.
3rd pair most of the time? So you’re just assuming an Ace/Queen runout? What about the times we call flop and the turn comes a K and our opponent barrels turn and river because a “King is better for his range.”

Solvers raise this flop like 6% of the time so effectively we should never raise flop here.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Solvers raise this flop like 6% of the time so effectively we should never raise flop here.
sure, but add in the fact that sb will overfold and under 3bet and all of a sudden we should raise quite often...

You hate getting 3bet argument is definitely not relevant esp in those stakes where that very rarely happens.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
sure, but add in the fact that sb will overfold and under 3bet and all of a sudden we should raise quite often...

You hate getting 3bet argument is definitely not relevant esp in those stakes where that very rarely happens.
Well one more reason to let this combo go and continue on with 2p/set/high equity draws.
Anyway I called and the hand went check/check turn and river on a couple of bricks. Villain showed KK.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 04:20 AM
You said he was aggro reg postflop? Im calling vs those individuals
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps
You said he was aggro reg postflop? Im calling vs those individuals
That's what I thought at the moment and what his stats said. But since K8 no diamond is the worst value raise in our range aren't we overcalling a bit when he 3bets?
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 04:36 AM
Why is everyone so scared to bluff catch vs aggro player LOL

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[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SicilianTaimanov
Why is everyone so scared to bluff catch vs aggro player LOL

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How is raising flop bluffcatching?
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote
03-06-2019 , 06:06 AM
He might be fairly aggro and we're bvb but I don't think that a nl10 reg will start 3betting flop and then barreling light that often. He checked two streets with KK after all.
[NL10z] BvB Flop Battle (Bet/Raise/3Bet/...?) Quote

      
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