NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop

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11-26-2007 , 01:05 PM

AlexB182

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,338

Main Villain here is a NL100 reg, running 15/6/0.65 over 900 hands so far.
I'm running at 16/11 at this table.
Reg might put me on a CB here thinking I might have missed the flop but I'm rally not sure if he/she would raise me on a pure bluff here given his/her AF...
Comments appreciated!

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP1: $50.40
MP2: $99
CO: $246.60
BTN: $199.95
SB: $115.65
BB: $25.35
UTG: $253.85
Hero (UTG+1): $98.50
UTG+2: $201.80

Pre-Flop: A

dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $4, UTG+2 calls $4, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $4, 4 folds

Flop: ($13.50) 3

(3 Players)
Hero bets $10, UTG+2 raises to $32, Hero?

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11-26-2007 , 01:07 PM

BadBigBabar

banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,229

does he fastplay sets? 33 and 66 have to be in his range pretty strongly no? i suppose some combo diamond draw is possible. i would tend to fold here given the af that you mentioned, and also that he could easily be putting us on an overpair given our ep open, and yet he still shows a lot of strength.

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11-26-2007 , 01:10 PM

too eazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,082

what did MP2 do?

usually a raise here in a multiway pot is legit, wtih no history im tossing it.

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11-26-2007 , 01:14 PM

Makonnen

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,381

Fold. AF that low, he has something, and if he doesn't, fine, you ran into the 1 bluff he'll run this week.

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11-26-2007 , 01:20 PM

AlexB182

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,338

Quote:

what did MP2 do?

usually a raise here in a multiway pot is legit, wtih no history im tossing it.

Sorry. MP2 folded.

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11-26-2007 , 01:23 PM

Brimstead

adept

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 999

i would fold, i dont want a pair of tens oop against those stats if im being raised. You are a solid player, and a reg knows that, so they are probably putting u on something better than TPTK after raising EP. Maybe they are putting u on AK and raising your cbet, but i think its mroe likely that this player has the goods.

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11-26-2007 , 01:30 PM

AllTheCheese

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Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Fold preflop. As played, fold flop.

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11-26-2007 , 01:50 PM

threads13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,223

You probably have to fold here. I usually limp this hand preflop though.

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11-26-2007 , 01:52 PM

AllTheCheese

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You probably have to fold here. I usually limp this hand preflop though.

Sorry, but gross.

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11-26-2007 , 01:56 PM

#10

threads13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,223

Quote:

You probably have to fold here. I usually limp this hand preflop though.

Sorry, but gross.

If you give some solid reasoning, then maybe we can discuss this. I have no idea what part of it you think is bad, or even if you really know what you are talking about when it comes to NL when you post 3 insulting words.

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11-26-2007 , 01:58 PM

#11

AlexB182

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,338

He thought that my PFR was bad so I guess he'll think that limping with ATs is even worse...

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11-26-2007 , 02:02 PM

#12

threads13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,223

Quote:

He thought that my PFR was bad so I guess he'll think that limping with ATs is even worse...

That logic doesn't work in poker all the time. You know this. Fold, raise, or limp are not always in order. I think in this case it would be limp > raise or fold. This is absolutely not a raise or fold hand.

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11-26-2007 , 02:10 PM

#13

Effen

CRAB

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 24,004

You can limp this. I wouldn't. But it's not absurd.

As played it's a super easy fold. You're repping huge and unobservant, ultra-passive player is repping bigger.

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11-26-2007 , 02:13 PM

#14

threads13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,223

Let me also say this...

This hand shouldn't be a default raise preflop in EP unless you have a table-specific reason.

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11-26-2007 , 02:16 PM

#15

AllTheCheese

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Open-limping OOP in NL, without LRRing, is exploitable. Smart TAGs can pretty consistently raise your open-limps and force you to tough decisions. In general, don't you find that playing OOP outside of the lead is difficult?

I'm sorry if I sounded overly rude. In a lot of games, especially at the lower limits, you can get away with this because people are happy to limp around. So if that's the case in your game, more power to you. Go ahead and limp. But IMO, open-limping, especially with a hand like AT, and especially UTG is -EV.

EDIT: Oh, just to point out, I agree that ATs isn't an auto-raise in EP. I think it should be folded.

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11-26-2007 , 02:20 PM

#16

threads13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,223

Quote:

Well, first I do l/rr. Secondly, if you have a bunch of solid players to your left then you probably shouldn't play ATs at all in EP. Manipulating the pot size is far more important, in general, than having the lead. Raising this hand in EP is "getting out of line"(not by much, but it is). It is up to you whether or not your opponents will punish you for getting out of line.

Everything is exploitable in NL.

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11-26-2007 , 02:30 PM

#17

AlexB182

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,338

I agree with both of you that coming in with a raise with ATs in EP is not a default play but on the right tables / with the right villains, I def have no problem with it.

Edit: And you see threads, cheese was talking about the open - limp, that was only what I was referring to...

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11-26-2007 , 02:32 PM

#18

threads13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,223

Quote:

I agree with both of you that coming in with a raise with ATs in EP is not a default play but on the right tables / with the right villains, I def have no problem with it.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. In addition, I am saying that at a lot of tables you may be raising it for all the wrong reasons if you default raise it. It doesn't play well OOP in a raised pot, as is evident in this particular hand.

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11-26-2007 , 03:15 PM

#19

SABR42

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Fold against a guy with those stats.

He doesn't have to have a set to beat you, he could have like QQ.

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11-26-2007 , 03:19 PM

#20

AlexB182

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,338

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Fold against a guy with those stats.

He doesn't have to have a set to beat you, he could have like QQ.

That was in my mind too, that he maybe only flat called with QQ/JJ stuff here and now raises on a low board...

BTW: Congrats on your 5000th post SABR!

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11-26-2007 , 03:51 PM

#21

SABR42

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Doh, I didn't even notice.

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11-26-2007 , 04:21 PM

#22

CalledDownLight

Toonces the Posting Bot

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 88,413

Dump it. Preflop annd cbet are both good. Don't listen to the nits.

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11-26-2007 , 04:37 PM

#23

RapidEvolution

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I like to check the PFR% at the table before limping stuff like this in EP. If it's raise heavy, I'll dump it preflop but raise maybe 10% of the time. As played, I'm folding here. As others have said, someone with those stats isn't doing this without at least an overpair (and IMO, he'd probably rather flat-call and snipe another bet with an overpair, so I'd lean more towards a set).

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