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NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF?

10-09-2009 , 10:10 AM
Hi guys I would like to ask you for your opinion on my recent hand. UTG is fishy 51/4/1.9 over 76 hands and MP1 is quite solid 12/7/1.9 over decent sample.

Do you think flatting here is a good option? I think that from the size of MP1's isoraise we can assume, that he is holding a pretty decent hand and by 3betting him I would get it in with him only if he holds KK+ => so by 3betting we are probably folding hands which we have crushed. By flatting I try to get some value postflop from his weaker hands + I'm letting fishy UTG in the pot as well. Do you think it is a good idea?

Thank you very much for your opinions in advance.

Party Poker $10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $9.90
Hero (BB): $11.47
UTG: $10.40
UTG+1: $5.64
UTG+2: $2.63
MP1: $23.41
MP2: $12.81
CO: $13.85
BTN: $17.20

Pre Flop: ($0.00) Hero is BB with A A
UTG calls $0, 2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.80, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.80, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.60) T 6 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $1.30, Hero raises to $2.90, MP1 raises to $22.61 all in, Hero calls $7.77 all in

Turn: ($22.94) A (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($22.94) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $22.94
Hero shows Ah As ( three of a kind, aces)
MP1 shows Ks Kd ( a pair of kings)
Hero wins $21.94
(Rake: $1.00)
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 10:22 AM
I like your thought process, but I'm not sure if playing AA this way at 10nl will get you the most value because of how light people stack off at this lvl.

Last edited by SaberTJ; 10-09-2009 at 10:26 AM. Reason: typo
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 11:06 AM
the problem is ur hand looks like a set..
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 11:23 AM
Iwould go ahead and 3-bet, because I think that big pairs are going to pay off after the flop, and I want to get some extra value out of AK before they miss, and I don't want to give UTG set mining odds (although I think that is a small worry in this case). I do occasionally flat my big pairs, and the few times that I have it has worked out wonderfully for me.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaberTJ
I like your thought process, but I'm not sure if playing AA this way at 10nl will get you the most value because of how light people stack off at this lvl.
This is key. Your thought process is fine, however you need to consider the risks of playing AA vs. 2 villains OOP vs. the reward by flatting and tarping them if they hit a piece (that doesn't crush you, of course).

The thing is, at 10NL you will get A LOT of hands =/= to KK that will get it all in pre when you have aces. I think in the long run you will make more money by raising / trying to get money in pre if possible.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 11:28 AM
***Grunching***

On NL10 I would always 3bet here, since he is so nitty, its obvious he has a strong hand there and he probally wouldnt let it go just like that. You shouldnt be afraid of 3betting preflop , especially when you have fishy player after you, better to scare him off preflop. If you 3bet preflop, he might put you on aces, but with flatting he could think you got a set and might fold as well. So in my opinion, flatting is not the best option here.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 01:13 PM
Thank you very much for your opinions...will stick to 3betting and save flatting for higher stakes... ;-)
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 01:37 PM
Also I think that board is super wet and your probably getting it in behind or gonna be behind by the river.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 04:47 PM
I probably 3-bet preflop. KK/QQ/AK probably aren't folding. KK will probably get it in preflop, like you said.

With a fishy UTG, I would want him out and go up against the regular. I don't want to get pissed when UTG calls and shows up with T6o all in on the flop.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 05:17 PM
If I was playing this hand, and saw my opponent shove this Flop, I'd call, right after I slap myself in the forehead for letting him get there.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Fo Fo
With a fishy UTG, I would want him out and go up against the regular. I don't want to get pissed when UTG calls and shows up with T6o all in on the flop.
You have this exactly back to front IMO. You *want* fish in a pot when you have a monster hand. The less than 5% of the time they hit a ridiculous flop and stack you is not good enough reason to miss out on all the juicy value you pick up the rest of the time. You *don't* particularly want to be giving great odds out of position to solid players when you have a hand that is difficult to lay down postflop.

In this particular case, I'm more bothered about the solid player than the UTG fish, so I'd 3 bet.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 05:40 PM
I flat call here. The raise is so big that I'm not worried about UTG calling behind. My reason for raising preflop with aces is to limit the field. This has already been done. You're not repping strength which is good since you're very strong. The only thing that would kill the action is an A on the board, but there's only about an 11% chance of that.

I'm not sure that's the best way, but I don't think it's always necessary to ram and jam.

I don't know if I'd worry about someone putting you on a set. Sets are awesome because no one ever puts you on one.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
I flat call here. The raise is so big that I'm not worried about UTG calling behind. My reason for raising preflop with aces is to limit the field. This has already been done. You're not repping strength which is good since you're very strong. The only thing that would kill the action is an A on the board, but there's only about an 11% chance of that.

I'm not sure that's the best way, but I don't think it's always necessary to ram and jam.

I don't know if I'd worry about someone putting you on a set. Sets are awesome because no one ever puts you on one.
Oops, my (totally stupid) mistake - somehow I thought this was 25NL. I agree with this. But on the other hand, I think villain's range is really, really narrow here. Guess it depends if you think he's capable of folding KK/QQ preflop.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
I flat call here. The raise is so big that I'm not worried about UTG calling behind. My reason for raising preflop with aces is to limit the field. This has already been done.
the other reason to raise is to get a villain to put money in with a hand that's worse than ours... which is very likely given the size of his raise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
I don't know if I'd worry about someone putting you on a set. Sets are awesome because no one ever puts you on one.
lol
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 06:29 PM
Well, with all these posts I'm starting to be just a little bit confused... :-)
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_man
Oops, my (totally stupid) mistake - somehow I thought this was 25NL. I agree with this. But on the other hand, I think villain's range is really, really narrow here. Guess it depends if you think he's capable of folding KK/QQ preflop.
I think that he is definitely capable of folding QQ maybe even KK to my 3bet here. Moreover the fish would probably fold as well to a 3bet and I don't mind if he actually comes with us - right? :-)
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivoo
Well, with all these posts I'm starting to be just a little bit confused... :-)
There's no one correct way to play it. You can do a bunch of different things and each has pros and cons. You have to take into account the game situation, the player, the stack sizes, your position, and all that stuff.

The important thing is to know why you're doing what you're doing and to have a plan.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote
10-09-2009 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivoo
I think that he is definitely capable of folding QQ maybe even KK to my 3bet here. Moreover the fish would probably fold as well to a 3bet and I don't mind if he actually comes with us - right? :-)
Fish can catch cards just like anyone else. Aces are best played heads up.

Also, I didn't realize you are in the blind. That actually makes me more likely to 3bet. As are good OOP, but I just don't like playing for my whole stack when I'm out of position.
NL10 - Suitable flatting w AA PF? Quote

      
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