Raise turn?

sigh fold?



Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $16.03 - VPIP: 28, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 2.5, Hands: 140
CO: $18.89 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 21, 3B: 5, AF: 2.3, Hands: 227
BTN: $80.67 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 2, 3B: 0, AF: 1.5, Hands: 180
SB: $26.98 - VPIP: 48, PFR: 31, 3B: 9, AF: 1.8, Hands: 339
Hero (BB): $18.69 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 1.6, Hands: 140552
UTG: $16.24 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 10, 3B: 8, AF: 1.0, Hands: 138

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 7 7
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.35, MP calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.35) 7 5 K (3 players)
SB bets $1.34, Hero calls $1.34, MP folds

Turn: ($4.03) J (2 players)
SB bets $2.01, Hero calls $2.01

River: ($8.05) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $23.18

raise turn
call river - though it's probably close to folding

vs this villain on this board i would find this very hard to fold.
i would probably raise turn and if he came over the top i'd be sick.

I'd want to raise river against this fish, but I realized he's already done the job for us.

wp

Of course you can't know that he will go nuts on the river, but I like raising the turn. He can have just about any two and the board is coordinating.

I really don't know what the heck to do on the river.

How about this for some lame logic? On the flop he has QT and bets big to get you to fold. On the turn he picks up an open ender and still wants you to fold, but doesn't want to invest a lot to do that now that he has some decent hand equity. He rivers the nuts and goes mental hoping for a hero call.

Or he has 55, KJ, AA or a bluff.

I'm def not raising turn, cuz I think even some dolts are capable of realizing we'll have worse than KJ roughly never. + we want him to barrel no equity hands and value own himself. Rivers sorta sick but I'm calling quickly while sighing and if he has better nice life.

possible but useless unless we are in for a soul read

i'd just call turn and raise big otr , as played i'd snapcall otr , there's so many other hands that he would play the same way and we already beat them

easy call otr also why didn't you raise the turn?

For the reasons I listed/because calling is better.

I still dont think calling is better. Calling is almost never better in this spot. If you want him to value own himself then do it by having him hit the call button when you raise his bet on the turn.

That's about the extent of villains "value owning" wtf is that. "Value owning himself" really? Only KK combos beat you OTF so calling here and using positional advantage to raise the villain turn bet is what needs to happen. Not raising the turn is the only arguable street to not raise on.

Then the turn hits and opens up more draws for the villain and KJ which is good for you because it keeps him in the hand so now it's TIME TO RAISE!! If he wants to see that last card that will MAKE his hand he needs to pay.

Your lodgic sounds strange to me. Your pretty much saying I'm going to let him bet so he can "Value own himself" and when he misses his draw on the river and check/folds and I can hold my set up with shame because I didn't make him pay on the turn and got no money in on the river. And when he is in the middle of "value owning himself" and he HITS his draw he can bet big and we will pay him off.

You see what I'm getting at? We should all erase this "value owning". Bet your damn hand.

There's not really many draws on this board, and he c-bet into two players. And while passive play is pretty common at these levels, this guy is a 48/31. Odds of him betting river are pretty decent imo.

Us being deeper is the only reason I'm thinking more about raising being an option tbh. 100BB deep the thought isn't crossing my mind absent reads that this guy is broking like all Kx, rarely bluffing turn and just lolshipping his OESD's and double gutters some of the time or something.

There are hands in villains value range that are dead (AK,KQ) and others that have very little equity (AA,55), and they aren't going to stop betting otr that often. and as I said before, even droolers here (not all, but some) are capable of realizing that we cant be bluffing here. Him folding no/low equity bluffs kinda sucks as well. Villain is gonna felt KJ otr anyway too, and sometimes bluff his missed draws.

Now, this guy probably is going to play turns really poorly with draws and one pair vs a raise, so raising cant be too bad, sure, but those are my reasons for wanting to call turn.

Also, I'm kind of concerned with his turn sizing that villains hand just kinda sucks/is meh and he'll fold a lot to a raise, so there's that.

To each is own. I think it's time for the outcome if nobody minds. I think he had Kx. KQ, KJ at best. Please do tell and nice hand.

Results aren't that interesting given 99% of all hands on 2+2 are where hero folded or lost.

To be honest it was the end of a long session 4 tabling rush so I didn't really think all that much, just fist pump called while doing a mental jig, he had 68 for a straight.

I think its quite close we don't know if he can overvalue worse, would he actually bet this big with 2 pair? The thing here as well is that I'm trying to build a bankroll, this session I'm up 4 buyins before losing 1 stack when villain hits a 3 outer on river after getting all in on turn, another stack set over set, then this hand so its a breakeven session. I think that should be considered before making marginal calls when deep.
Bladesman is right of course, this hand doesn't get posted when we win.

Results like this are very interesting to me. I play these limits and need to know what river bets like this mean in context with the way he played the hand. Going backwards, it makes perfect sense to me and my "lame logic" post was close. I didn't see though that the river completed two draws.

If there are two very tough situations I find myself in, it's the river overbets and the ever annoying donk bets. Even a little information about what they are is helpful.

Thinking in terms of 'sessions' is a mental game leak. Poker is just one long 'session'. Whether you're up or down for the day when you close your laptop isn't really that relevant.

hard to say what a overbetshove from a lose guy is meaning, perhaps spew or just near nuts.
I would consider raising flop against this guy, he easily can overpaly AK or AA.
Yes many 2+2 are postorientated now, because they always have it, for that reason i often post hands with so light calldowns.
The fishier this guy is and the better and also valnuarable my hand (like here we have no top set) the more i like to fastplay.
A total overbet shove at river im really not sure here what this guy is doing, cant say if i would say fold because you lost it would be only the half true.
But general you can say if people are deeper they are not this bluffhappy i think and play with more care.
I often saw overplayed hands for 100 bb but not that often for 200 bb or more.
It just looks for me like he have a better set here and want to get most but im not that sure.

It's not a 3bet. Being this deep with a fish, I'm definitely calling preflop.

Think the hand is well played. Raising turn could be an option. But the board is so dry.

If you'd won this hand it would have been a winning session. You knew (or should have known) that you'd be beaten some % here. We don't get to call knowing we all always win anywhere near as much as we'd like. The session so far doesn't matter. Only the hand you're in matters.

River overbets at these limits are usually super strong, but the villain in this hand isn't some typical reg who I'd expect to always have it. Hand reviews like this are obviously very important, or we wouldn't have this forum, but bear in mind that only certain hands get posted. If you focus too much on the results in this forum you'd come to the conclusion that everybody loses every time.

I think this deep vs a droolers 1/2psb turn is a mandatory raise. Not folding river as played.