NL10 cbet flop, turn? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL10 cbet flop, turn?

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11-15-2012 , 06:53 AM

IgnoramusKQ

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 97

Hello, cbet question on turn:

OP: VPIP 22/ PFR 15/ 3-bet 3,5/ foldto3-bet 58 (637 hands)
He fold to flop cbet 60 and turn cbet 25. Aggfactor 1,8.
Raise cbet flop 7% (15), turn 25% (4).

Ongame Network $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $9.50
BTN: $9.95
SB: $14.29
BB: $3.23
UTG: $9.65
MP: $9.85

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with A

UTG raises to $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, BTN calls $1, 3 folds

Flop: ($2.45) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.45) 6

(2 players)
Hero ???

I cbet flop for obvious reason: he fold to cbet 60% and i have middle pair with highest kicker, he calls, turn he fold to cbet only 25% and turn card is blank, now what? Fire the second barrel? What do you think about his line here? Thanks for answers

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11-15-2012 , 07:16 AM

neok

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,799

why are you 3betting?

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11-15-2012 , 07:22 AM

FineWan

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,150

Don't 3bet your turning it into a bluff, as played c/f turn.

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11-15-2012 , 08:34 AM

IgnoramusKQ

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by neok

why are you 3betting?

I'm 3betting because i want to know were i am, if i just call, and A come, it will be hard to fold AJ vs AQ, AK... i want to be IP on flop and undarstand better the OP range... if he would 4bet me preflop i would fold....

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11-15-2012 , 11:12 AM

playtowinalways

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,048

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgnoramusKQ

That's bad. When you 3b an utg what range do you think he continues? calls you 3b like 2ith 1010-QQ,AQ maybe AJs, KQs? and how do you do against this range? Not considering even the ttimes he 4b you or flats AA,KK maybe AKs. You are IP play some poker.

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11-15-2012 , 11:14 AM

playtowinalways

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,048

Now about Btn what do you think he calls pre a 3b vs utg? And all those stats about fold to cb 60% are those in 3bpots when he is IP?

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11-15-2012 , 11:29 AM

ForeverLearning

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 12,006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineWan

Don't 3bet your turning it into a bluff

Is that a problem?

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11-15-2012 , 11:34 AM

strz

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 183

It's understandable you want to know where you stand, but that is not a reason to 3bet. What you really accomplish by 3betting, is him folding his weaker hands and calling/4betting stronger.
Calling pre keeps weaker eq% like KJ/QJ/KQ in.

as played cf turn, most often just Qx/QQ+

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11-15-2012 , 12:33 PM

Vuggie

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,050

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgnoramusKQ

I'm 3betting because i want to know were i am, if i just call, and A come, it will be hard to fold AJ vs AQ, AK... i want to be IP on flop and undarstand better the OP range... if he would 4bet me preflop i would fold....

I see your point.

But the way you played it, now you are on the turn, and the pot is 55bb. Do you know where you are now? Seems that you don't. So did your preflop 3bet help you in "knowing where you are"?

Btw, as played, I would probably just check back flop. Just because he folds to cbet 60%, it doesn't mean that this stat is the same in 3bet pots. You have SDV, you can do some pot control and check back flop with second pair

Last edited by Vuggie; 11-15-2012 at 12:39 PM.

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11-16-2012 , 07:18 AM

#10

IgnoramusKQ

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 97

Thanks for help, now i understand my mistakes

yes, Vuggie, i dont know where I am

i just know i'm probably busted

i made a decision that: next time vs utg TAG player when i will have AJ or something like that I will call IP if the players feld on my left is appropriate, or just probably fold if the hand is less weak like AT...

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11-16-2012 , 07:44 AM

#11

FineWan

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,150

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverLearning

Is that a problem?

Do you think he folds better than AJ? Or everything worse?

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11-16-2012 , 08:35 AM

#12

RotInHell

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 891

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverLearning

Is that a problem?

I think there's more value in calling with this hand and 3betting A5 suited, we got position + a decent hand to boot, no need to start bluffing AJ I think.

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11-16-2012 , 08:42 AM

#13

ForeverLearning

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 12,006

He isn't likely to fold a better hand, maybe AQ. My point is that we're not doing well against his range so it's ok to turn our hand into a bluff.

Situation changes if there's a fish in the blinds.

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Originally Posted by RotInHell

I think there's more value in calling with this hand and 3betting A5 suited, we got position + a decent hand to boot, no need to start bluffing AJ I think.

Don't overestimate AJo, we have 40% equity and will be dominated a lot. T9s probably does better than AJo.

That said, I'm calling in that spot with AJ most of the time. But there's nothing wrong in turning it into a bluff imo

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11-16-2012 , 09:13 AM

#14

epix-

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,066

you either 3bet for value or as a bluff but this 3bet is nothing of those

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11-16-2012 , 10:05 AM

#15

BustedOnceAgain

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by epix-

you either 3bet for value or as a bluff but this 3bet is nothing of those

FOLD PRE!!!vs UTG openner just as a standard:P

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11-22-2012 , 07:12 AM

#16

IgnoramusKQ

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 97

Ongame Network $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $9.50
BTN: $9.95
SB: $14.29
BB: $3.23
UTG: $9.65
MP: $9.85

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with A

UTG raises to $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, BTN calls $1, 3 folds

Flop: ($2.45) J

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.45) 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $4.00, BTN raises to $7.45, Hero calls $3 all in

River: ($19.45) 2

(2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $19.45
Hero shows A

BTN shows K

BTN wins $0.45
(Rake: $1.29)

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11-22-2012 , 08:27 AM

#17

neok

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,799

I really don't get your sizing. It's way too big for what you're trying to do and as a standard.

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11-22-2012 , 08:30 AM

#18

playtowinalways

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,048

thats an awfull board to cb. and if you cb this flop, plz don't bet turn just c/f. Btn calling 3b range pre is 1010+ AQ+(if not tighter). this range smashes you into pieces on that flop.

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11-22-2012 , 11:57 AM

#19

dadude

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,186

I have the same problem inflating pot like this pf. Agree flatting pre is better.

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11-23-2012 , 02:42 AM

#20

IgnoramusKQ

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 97

Yeah terrible play... i dont know what the hell i did there...

thanks for helping me to understand my mistakes.

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11-23-2012 , 02:58 AM

#21

goranbaxy

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,362

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineWan

Don't 3bet your turning it into a bluff, as played c/f turn.

I think that is fine, calling AJo OP vs UTG open is not going to show profit.

What flop beside 2pair+ are you hoping to se and get money in and be happy?

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11-23-2012 , 03:25 AM

#22

samcx

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by epix-

you either 3bet for value or as a bluff but this 3bet is nothing of those

That's not really true. We can 3b purely because we think it's more +ev than flatting.

In this spot vs an UTG open I would fold or 3b, only in special circumstances I'd flat.

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11-23-2012 , 10:46 AM

#23

RotInHell

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 891

^ Doesn't that mean you would 3bet as a bluff? You want him to fold right? Or is it more value in you 3b and he call or 4b rather than if you just flat?

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