Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI

01-22-2008 , 08:25 AM
No history really. Guy seemed a bit loose. Only called the 3bet preflop because we were deep..

What does he have here? A slow played set?

Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

CO ($109.30) (Hero)
Button ($21.20)
SB ($99.20)
BB ($49.25)
MP3 ($39.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, K
[color:#666666]1 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises to 2.0[/color], [color:#666666]1 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]SB raises to 5.5[/color], [color:#666666]1 folds[/color], Hero calls $3.75,

Flop: T, Q, 2 ( $12 )
SB checks, Hero checks,

Turn: 3 ( $12 )
[color:#CC3333]SB bets $6.00[/color], Hero calls $6.00,

River: 7 ( $24 )
[color:#CC3333]SB bets $87.45[/color], Hero calls $87.45,

Final Pot: $195.90
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:33 AM
Even when you're deep, preflop should be a fold. What flop are you hoping to see? Or is your plan to outplay this guy?

As played, river is easy call. Only reasonable hand thats beat you is AJs
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:38 AM
I instacall. I think we see a set of TTT or QQQ 80% of the time.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:41 AM
preflop is a fold very often, esp. because you are deep, lol, do you want to see a K on the flop? what exactly do you want the flop to be? river insta call
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:41 AM
Pretty bizarre play by villain no matter what he holds. You have 2nd nuts...I don't think you're ever folding this and you should be thankful that it was so easy to get villain's money into the pot.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:45 AM
I called preflop because this guy seemed to be a weak player. My plan was to outplay him if he shows weakness on the turn and has AK. Plus I had position. hmm so I should consider folding preflop.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:50 AM
River is surely a triple fistpump snap call

There is literally one hand in his range I think (AhJh) that you lose to but a whole heap of others you beat that could do this.

The only thing that concerns me is the massive push on the river - as why would you do that? It smacks of the nuts trying to get a set/weaker flush to call.

I guess villian showed AJhh?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 08:59 AM
Preflop is fine, I think river is bad beat city. Looks like it could be AJhh... but thats pretty much all for flushes which beat you and would also 3bet preflop. Everything else is an overplayed set.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 09:54 AM
The big question here is:

The pot is 24 on the river. Is it worth risking 88 more or is it ok to fold there? Who else thinks he has QQ here?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:12 AM
There's exactly one flush that beats you. You have the second nuts. If you go broke with it vs the nuts, it's a cooler (unless it's a QQQQx board and you lose with king kicker.)
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19
The big question here is:

The pot is 24 on the river. Is it worth risking 88 more or is it ok to fold there? Who else thinks he has QQ here?
The question should be:

The pot is 111.45 on the river and you have to call 88 to win it - thus does he have AJhh more than 45% of the time
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19
The big question here is:

The pot is 24 on the river. Is it worth risking 88 more or is it ok to fold there? Who else thinks he has QQ here?

The pot is $111.45 on the river
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uuuhcall
preflop is a fold very often, esp. because you are deep, lol, do you want to see a K on the flop?
i can find an easy fold if villian bets such a flop. or do you felt TPMK + no redraw when you are deep in these spots? preflop is fine.

river is a instacall.

if he has you beat, uh, well...
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:32 AM
This is a definite call.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:48 AM
If AJh is the only hand we lose to, why are we not raising the river? We get called by lots of worse hands. Also, is he really 3 betting with AJhearts, or Axhearts PF? I go broke on the river, is this a leak?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gullanian
If AJh is the only hand we lose to, why are we not raising the river? We get called by lots of worse hands. Also, is he really 3 betting with AJhearts, or Axhearts PF? I go broke on the river, is this a leak?
SB is all in on the river.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:01 AM
Doh silly me. Assuming he has another 200bbs behind him in super deepstack play, we are always raising the river here right? And calling a shove?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:06 AM
I think I would be violently sick in that situation as although I would call this unless i had a really good read on the villain - I do think his line looks suspiciously like AJhh and if he shoved a river raise whilst super deep I cant see it being anything but AJhh.

Leakk?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:07 AM
I really can't put him on AJh because I so rarely see people repop PF with that hand.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:11 AM
Gullanian, I PM you back, not sure if you noticed it yet. I really appreciate your help =)

To be honest, I never think he has AJhh here. Because he 3bet preflop so little that it makes me think he has AA/KK/QQ/AK almost always here. And after checking the flop it screams like QQ and him hoping to c/r me on the flop. The turn is a weak lead with top set to get paid off or raised there, he's assuming I have air. The river shove really looks like a set to me. Am I completely wrong here?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:30 AM
Personally, I think stacking off here in a small pot with just $11 invested is an absolute sin.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:52 AM
Raise preflop is fine. Calling the reraise is is OK because you have position and the stacks are deep.

If villain is the type to c/f missed AK-type hands, then I'd bet the flop, and fold to more than a min-c/r. Bet $10.

If villain almost always cb's even when he misses the flop, then I'd suspect a trap from a set, and I'd check behind on the flop like you did. However, if you check the flop, then check the turn. If your hand wasn't good enough to bet the flop, the 3h is unlikely (in villain's mind) to help your hand very much. He will c/c with any pair and any draw. Having decided to play the flop passively, I think you should just take the free card on the turn.

As played, the right play is probably to call just because it is hard to put villain on only 1 hand (AhJh), and if he has 2 or more other hands with which he might take this line (sets/lower flush/bluff) then you should call.

But I'd still fold just because this looks more like either the nut flush or air rather than a set or some other hand like lower flushes. Sets would bet less on the river, I think, or at least bet on the turn once missing a chance to c/r the flop when you checked behind. A lower flush is possible, but why would villain reraise with JhTh or less preflop? AhJh seems right for reraising preflop, checking the flop, c/c'ing the turn, and overbetting the river. Or air trying to buy the pot. And I'd err on the side of caution the first time he overbets this kind of thing. Next time, if he does this a lot on scarey rivers, then I'll have to look him up. But this first time, I'd probably let it go.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insyder19
Gullanian, I PM you back, not sure if you noticed it yet. I really appreciate your help =)

To be honest, I never think he has AJhh here. Because he 3bet preflop so little that it makes me think he has AA/KK/QQ/AK almost always here. And after checking the flop it screams like QQ and him hoping to c/r me on the flop. The turn is a weak lead with top set to get paid off or raised there, he's assuming I have air. The river shove really looks like a set to me. Am I completely wrong here?
If he'd missed a chance to c/r the flop with a set, then he would have bet or c/r'ed the turn since the board is so draw-heavy. I find it unlikely that a set would check the flop then c/c this board only to push a 3-flush river. A set if possible, I suppose, but unlikely. I think this is the nut flush or air of some kind. Maybe a lower flush, like JhTh, but that seems less likely unless villain regularly reraises OOP with suited connectors like that.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 03:46 PM
Well he didn't c/c the turn. Villian is first to act, he bet the turn, I called it.
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote
01-22-2008 , 04:44 PM
Realy weird play by villain.
Could this be a misclic?
The way the hand played out I think u got to call, theres no way hes putting you on a flush there.


Result?
NL 50, 200bb deep, rivered backdoorflush, he overbets it AI Quote

      
m