4th hand at the table and no reads/stats

Note stack sizes of two villians. Standard shove here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($91.80)
UTG+1 ($98.60)
MP1 ($61.75)
Hero ($100)
MP3 ($57.15)
CO ($69.90)
Button ($41.30)
SB ($100.35)
BB ($44.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, A.
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, CO raises to $13, Button calls $13, 2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $100

Looks fine to me.

with stacks this is ultrastandard. I think its closer with full stacks, but probably still a shove.

In this situation, yes, standard shove.

Pushing is much better than calling.

When I'm playing live, and I don't have a read on villain's reraising range, then I usually give him credit for QQ-AA/AK and fold AK if we're over 100bb's deep and I'm OOP like this. Mostly that's because I just don't have as many hands in a session to make up for losing an all-in preflop with AK OOP when villain turns out to be a nit with KK/AA. With more of a read that villain reraises too much, or if villain has a medium-sized stack, then I'd push too. I wouldn't ever call in this spot, however.

So, vs a guy with whom you have no idea what his LP FR reraising range is over your MP2 open raise, a fold isn't terrible IMO if he had a full stack (in OP he only has $69.90 making push look a little better than fold even though you don't have a read on him yet).

I disagree. I think in this situation you can flat call the 3 bet and take the flop. AA-JJ are def in the CO and buttons range. If you shove you would want the CO or button to have QQ JJ P10 AQ even if they have one of those you are only ahead of AQ because AK is still a upaired hand.

The reason I'm shoving is to try and get the CO to fold JJ/QQ here by using by the 4-bet and the fact that someone is still to act behind him.

Ideally they would both fold b/c it is unlikey that I'm ahead of both of their hands, if either. Just using the power of betting to move them off their holdings and if I'm called, there is a sizable amount of money in the pot to offset the times I'm faced with KK (compared to a ~flip)

The BTN is unlikely to just cold call a reraise with AA-KK. He probably has a mid-pair or small pair and is optimistically calling for "set value" despite not really having good implied odds to do so. He might have a suited aces, like AKs or AQs with which he is calling in position. I don't think he can call an all-in from the original raiser, especially if the CO folds.

CO probably has a reraising range somewhere between KK-AA (super tight), QQ-AA,AK (tight), and TT-AA,AK,AQs (semi-loose). Vs these ranges, TT-JJ,AQs and probably even AK all fold. Even QQ might fold. If QQ-AA call, AKo still has 30% equity. Even against KK-AA, AKo has 18% equity. But putting them all in puts a lot of pressure on CO, maximizing your fold equity, and if he folds, then BTN probably folds as well. And if CO calls, BTN still probably folds, and hero sees all five cards without further betting OOP when he's up agains QQ-KK. He's only really in trouble if CO actually has AA, which is less likely than QQ-KK/AK.

In general, I think that flat calling a reraise out of position with a hand like AK is a leak. Raising or folding is better. You will miss your top pair 2/3s of the time, and even when you hit you will then have to play OOP on every street which makes it hard to win the most when ahead, and lose the least when behind.

[nit]
doing this with a decent hand like AK isn't really a squeeze. 72off, it is a squeeze.
[/nit]

Push or fold,though I really don't know how much I like shoving here...

If you aren't doing this with 87suited or something like at least 15% of the time then this play is absolute garbage.

I assume you are saying that if not, my range is too small otherwise eazy?

Last question. In these types of situations, does anyone not raise AI with their 4-bet to try and show more strength? Often, many people immediately put a push on AK, where a raise to $45 might look stronger? Effectively its the same thing b/c my money is always going in, just a perception thing?

nah, shove here is better with these stacks. With full stacks I think making it $40 and calling a shove is good. I'm pretty sure too eazy is saying that if you're only pushing KK+ and AK then your range is too small which is correct. AXs should also be part of your shoving range here.

I'd definately prefer to shove Ax over 87s, but I see his point.

This is completely dependent on villains' stats. Shove if loose, fold if tight. Why is this a standard shove? You are way behind the range of many nits.

You're way ahead of the range of 2 unknowns. Nits doesn't even come into this equation. This is a standard shove. I really can't even understand an argument for any other action tbh, but I am known to spew a little.

In my experience, a big COMMITTING 3bet in this spot is AAKKQQAK from the majority of players, AAKK from nits, and 22-AAAKAQAJKQKJ from a small minority of donktards. Occasionally, you will be crushing AQ, but more often than not, the villain's range is AAKKQQAK. Why shove then? You are either crushed, racing, or splitting. The key is that he made a 3bet that makes him absolutely committed to the pot; most players wont do this without AKQQ+. You need PT to answer the question.

nh, standard.

sobos, I'm sorry but I don't see either a big or committing 3bet. He made about as standard of a 3bet as it gets. He's unknown so he's probably not a nit.

This may sound ******ed to some, but in my experience, this is generally a standard/+EV shove on Stars and an illadvised/-EV shove on FullTilt. I'm inclined to fold FAR more often than shove. I can remember only a handful of times I have shoved AK, but I distinctly remember seeing AA/KK every time.

When a 70BB player raises to 13BB, there is almost 0% chance he's folding to a shove. If he had 100BB, that chance goes up a lot.

I really think a lot of people around this forum are overly concerned with the metagame. Expanding your shoving/4bet range is MUCH less important than getting good equity, especially at &lt;100 (and even much higher). VERY few people are thinking about history when they play you, not to mention that PAHUD doesnt even display 3bet and 4bet stats.

AK is a good hand in this position but it's not a made had. It's only a big underdog to AA and a and a slighter dog to KK but our opponents actions say I have AA or KK. Now that I really think about it I think a fold is a very sound move here.

AK is a better than than QQ in this spot and far far better than JJ

[quote]
Huh,
that makes a lot of since. What about a fold here ?

I get looked up by all kinds of stuff in this spot from unknowns. I really don't think their ranges are AA/KK. Vs. some nits, definitely, but unknowns, no.