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NL 10: pre flop doubt NL 10: pre flop doubt

10-24-2008 , 03:00 AM
PokerStars, $0.05/0.10 Hold'em Cash Games, 8 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
UTG+1: $5.40
MP1: $10.05
MP2: $10.20
CO: $9.65
Button: $12.05
SB: $9.30
BB: $12.55
UTG: $11.25

Dealt to MP1 J J

Pre-flop:
UTG raises to $0.50 (14/10/42/1.7), (1 folds), MP1 raises to $1.60, (5 folds), UTG raises to $11.25 and is all-in


well my doubt it is pre flop. does a player do this with AK? do i have to do the same? i have to play it that way (AK) +EV?
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 03:03 AM
Most of the times you are in a coinflip situation or you are crushed. Depends on reads too. If my opponent is somewhat nitty/tag then I am just calling his/her UTG open with JJ. As played, fold.
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 07:49 AM
He probably has JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AKs, or AKo. You have JJ, so you are a not in too good of shape I think. JJ isn't the type of hand to call with in this situation, I'd fold. If you have KK or AA you can call though. Good luck, Yojimgari
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 09:18 AM
Probably fold here, next time try calling his EP raise. A 14/10 is fairly tight from EP but could have something like 66 here that he will likely cbet if its heads up and you can get value from. 3 betting takes the smaller pockets/AQ out of his range and pretty much your going to be playing against TT+ and AK+. Even TT might be a little loose to call a 3 bet. Just so you are not confused, you are not set mining here. If hit a set that's great, but this is almost what you could consider a preflop float.
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptVimes
Probably fold here, next time try calling his EP raise. A 14/10 is fairly tight from EP but could have something like 66 here that he will likely cbet if its heads up and you can get value from. 3 betting takes the smaller pockets/AQ out of his range and pretty much your going to be playing against TT+ and AK+. Even TT might be a little loose to call a 3 bet. Just so you are not confused, you are not set mining here. If hit a set that's great, but this is almost what you could consider a preflop float.
Yeah this pretty much exactly what I was gonna say. +1
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 12:40 PM
I had a similar hand recently. You might be interested in what people had to say about this one: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...-value-321339/
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 01:07 PM
I think people are being too result orientated here.

Calling JJ in MP is burning money. You'll end up in a multi-way pot too many times with people calling behind you. You only have 42 hands with the villain, which only tells you he isn't a maniac or aggro-lag.

Here's what happens on the flop if you are lucky and no one else calls. The villain will make a cbet. Over half the time, an over card will be on the flop. Do you float and hope he shuts down without reads? The rest of the time, you float or raise, hoping he doesn't have an over pair to yours and shuts down. In both cases, your chances of winning a proper sized pot for your hand is totally dependent on a villain who you don't have a read on.

I'd much rather raise here. I know that the hero is probably in the lead pf, but the flop is going to change that against an unknown. You do want to chase out AK, AQ, TT, 99 and others because you could lose your stack if they hit and or be easily bluffed off your hand.

As played, he's got AA or KK most of the time. Fold, since in 42 hands he would of done this a couple of times if this was a bluff move for him.
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
I think people are being too result orientated here.

Calling JJ in MP is burning money. You'll end up in a multi-way pot too many times with people calling behind you. You only have 42 hands with the villain, which only tells you he isn't a maniac or aggro-lag.

Here's what happens on the flop if you are lucky and no one else calls. The villain will make a cbet. Over half the time, an over card will be on the flop. Do you float and hope he shuts down without reads? The rest of the time, you float or raise, hoping he doesn't have an over pair to yours and shuts down. In both cases, your chances of winning a proper sized pot for your hand is totally dependent on a villain who you don't have a read on.

I'd much rather raise here. I know that the hero is probably in the lead pf, but the flop is going to change that against an unknown. You do want to chase out AK, AQ, TT, 99 and others because you could lose your stack if they hit and or be easily bluffed off your hand.

As played, he's got AA or KK most of the time. Fold, since in 42 hands he would of done this a couple of times if this was a bluff move for him.
3-bet folding JJ is taking the value out of it, and you might as well be holding 74o. And why do I want to chase out all the hands that will bluff into me?
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 03:22 PM
As played, you have to fold. Even against an extremely generous range that included 99 and TT, we do not fare particularly well. In practical terms, this is one of the big three pairs or AK almost all of the time. He has to have a hand that has significant showdown value since the likelihood of you calling is high after you three-bet.
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote
10-24-2008 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I vi ii V7
And why do I want to chase out all the hands that will bluff into me?
It is obviously villain and table dependent. If this is a villain that I know won't double barrel without a hand and a table that is going to fold everything but QQ+, AK in this situation, then calling is fine. However, once there is one caller, the BB is getting 4:1 odds to call and everyone else is starting to think about set mining. I'm not looking to chase out the initial raiser, but rather keep everyone else out (if he does fold, I'm not that upset). The only one who is going to bluff at this pot is the UTG. Everyone else is going to check to the raiser on the flop, so they aren't bluffing anyway.
NL 10: pre flop doubt Quote

      
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