lol? this is an absolutely fantastic board to double barrel- i should take that back, this is a pretty good board to double barrel, but a fantastic board to triple barrel. the only reason to think it's not that great of a board to fire more guns at is bc it's such a terrible board to float is, but actionjackson apparently think it's a good flop to float, so who knows?! maybe the kids are floating this flop nowadays!

you're out of your mind if you think anything other.

Yeah ok, I agree with that. It could be a very good spot to double barrell if you follow up on the river with another bet. I think the worst line you can take with air on the turn is to bet again and give up on the river, though. But I'm guessing you agree with me after your last post.

I can't really put him on a hand that beats you. AQ MAYBE?

The thing is, I think he never bets with the hands that we WTFPWN, so I give him a chance to be a donk and bet again. I c/r him AI or c/c his AI.

river bet 400, call shove

woops i mean, i don't think he calls with most of the hands that we WTFPWN.

Please understand that the OP is not the only person who will take on board the advice in this thread, while DJ may know not to fold if he bets and get raised here, others may not. Mneh anyway.

wait that doesn't sound like fun

DJ,

I prefer a b/3b on the turn because of this possible scenario. I alluded to it in my first post. Because there are many cards that are not ideal for you, you have to be able to create a nice balance of getting value from your winners while controlling (somewhat) the coolers. By b/3b'ng the turn you attempt to get the money in on the turn when you can comfortably feel as though you are ahead, all the while having enough behind as to not feel committed on the river if one of those crap cards peel off. But if a 'safe' card falls you will still have ample opportunity to get the money.

cliff notes to incoherent drunk ramble- I want to be able to get all the money in on the turn, or I want to have choices come a bad river. As played you bloated pot on the turn, thereby committing yourself to any river card that may fall good or bad.

well jloc, thing is he probably isn't raising the turn very much, with his combodraws and such. agree/disagree? If we fire again on turn, we're looking mighty strong, because it's the "standard" line for playing a strong hand. However, bet > c/r is less standard, so he might level himself into thinking we have a weak hand, which is why I like checking the river as well.

If I bet the turn and he just calls I am not upset about those developments.

a) I either have the best hand and he is making a mistake by drawing getting improper odds.
b) I have the worst of it and he is not maximizing on his value (since I have left room to get away from it or atleast not stack off come river).
c) If he does have a combo draw, I have no problem getting value on the turn and seeing if the river is friendly to me before committing.
d) If the river misses, I have a good opportunity to extract from inducing a bluff since this is a good spot for him to get over zealous I feel given all the possible hands that he feels kick my ass.
e) We can't rule out that he won't raise us if he feels we are pushing a light double barrel OR he actually has a legitemate second best hand.

Overall, I want to dictate when the STACKS go in. The turn doesn't allow for stacking unless he is a dumbass or has a better hand. Getting a few hundo in the pot on the turn is nice (as a c/r accomplishes) but getting the thousand+ in is my goal. And it is only my goal on the turn or a safe river. A c/r does not allow this line.

Again, sorry if I make no sense. I promise I do in my own head...

jloc,

Great post. Excellent points. Agree completely.

How often if ever does he mix up his play?
I think calling with overpairs and AK/AQ are two seperate catagories.. so how often does he overset/2pair you?

My guess is he calls more than most agaisnt you IP? I would guess he has hearts here alot, and the other stuff less frequently. I also think he will show up with j10 once and a while.

Fair so far? If this is the case I think I bet, and bet most rivers.. I think a river check is kind of transparent and he wont bluff/thin value often enough.
So 175 on turn, if he raises I def 3b shove (stacks permitting I guess? not doing math its freakin early) and if he flatcalls I'll fire 485 on most rivers

I dunno jloc, I guess I would c/r and let him bluff his hand because he's overaggro, so I'd guess he'd be the one betting river if he missed. Also, A bet > c/r > check seems like you just messed up the hand somewhere imo.

I guess I feel bad for letting him draw so cheaply when there are like 22-23 potentially bad cards for us (out of 44, half the deck )- namely 3A, 3K, 3Q, 4J, 4T, and 6 other hearts (5 if we have 7)

Are you check calling the river on blanks because he missed?, and think he's gonna be overaggro? On a river that brings a danger card, are you check calling anyway, because it might've been a missed draw? Let's assume 3/4 PSB for his river bet sizing.

I think it is very important to know if he would fire a river bluff after a 2 barrel than a barrel + c/r here, but I'm guessing most people would fire after 2 barrels instead of a barrel c/r (because its much more polarized to v strong, v weak hands)

sorry for being ******ed jloc, I think your line is completely fine fwiw, I'm just trying to explain mine .

Oh wait, I thought you said you agree that it's a bad board to double barrell but good if you triple barrell. It's still a horrible board to double barrell if you're just going to c/f the river, that should be pretty obvious.

Dtan,

Don't over estimate opponents floating/bluff aggression on this board with this action.
Also, just because there are many cards we no like, don't make them all equal in dislike value...

results?

btw i think river shove would be standard here because you're not getting a value bet out of naked trips

I run down my timer and shove, villain snapcalls the niggity nuts AK. meh.

who was this against?

cooler imo. nothing else you can do.

heh, i forget at this point, plus dont have a HH saved anyhow

would you like to get the money all-in with this hand? i think thats the question. If you choose not, make value bets.(175)

If you do: overbet the pot? against agressive opponents this might look as weakness... or make a 100$ bet, so he can raise and then push.

I like the overbet most