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Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros)

02-16-2011 , 06:52 AM
With big slick and 4 players to monotone flop, I have a nut 4-flush draw w/ two huge overcards. I bet really small (just trying to build a pot, but perhaps this was unwise?) and the last to act villain over-raises. On the turn 4 people are splitting a big pot, I hit my TPTK w/ nut flush draw. Checked to UTG+2 who shoves. (He is a 13/7/1.8 nit. No other reads.)

Do I call since I do have SD value w/ my A and could make my flush? Is this an easy fold w/ 2 others to act after me? Did I play this hand horribly and that's what got me into this position in the first place begin with?

Full Tilt, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $4.55
UTG+1: $4.95
UTG+2: $5
MP1: $2.50
MP2: $4.43
CO: $13.48
BTN: $5.17
SB: $5.11
BB: $9.15

Pre-Flop: A K dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10, UTG+2 calls $0.10, 5 folds, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.42) 5 6 4 (4 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.15, UTG+1 calls $0.15, UTG+2 raises to $1.02, BB calls $1.02, Hero calls $0.87, UTG+1 calls $0.87

Turn: ($4.50) A (4 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets $3.88 and is All-In,
Herro?????
Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 07:19 AM
Bet more pre flop usually 3x or 4x or more if other players are calling alot. I'd check this flop there are too many players to cbet (also your OOP and your cbet size is too small), you have a draw to the nut flush you don't want to get raised of it like above.

As played I'd fold on the flop you're a 4:1 dog to make your flush and the pots only laying you about 3:1 your over cards are unlikely to help as I suspect UTG+2 has either a set, 2 pair or flopped staight.
Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 07:20 AM
ok, my bad, its a fold here

Last edited by zachen1989; 02-16-2011 at 07:37 AM.
Monotone flop & Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 07:23 AM
Quite likely you are behind ott (sets and flushes and straights)- which gives you <=25% equity, you should stove this (less vs sets).

You are getting ~3.2:1 on your call, if the others call this is potentially more. So its close but i think it is a fold.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 09:18 AM
wow 2x pre raise TUG with AK is crazy, make it 4x or 5x, most of the time you will be OOP so you want to play HU.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 09:27 AM
More pre.

Shove or fold flop after nit raises you.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 12:59 PM
Why raise 2x UTG with AK?

Do you want a big multiway pot? The answer to this is almost "never", unless you have a hand like 22 and are going to play fit or fold anyway. But a big multiway pot is exactly what you get when you raise 2x from early position.

I agree w/ SaberTJ - either shove or fold on the flop.

I don't think you have SDV on the turn - a nit raising you has TPTK beat. You are going to need to hit one of your flush outs. If villain already has a flush, then you have 7 outs. There's a good chance other people in this pot have a spade also, reducing your outs further.

I vote for folding flop. I'm unsure of how many outs I have and no fold equity. If I have 7 outs against a made flush, I'm a 3:1 dog.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 04:17 PM
4x pre, check fold flop.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-16-2011 , 11:20 PM
First off, just a general q about preflop raises:

Is it ever OK to min-raise in EP? AK (though I guess more so w/ AKs even) is sort of a drawing hand -- one that could flop nut straight draws, nut/near-nut flush draws, and of course TPTKs. I was thinking it might be OK sometimes to make a small-ish raise EP, especially at a table of nits, w/ this kind of hand. Maybe I'm wrong though.

OK, back to this hand....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweep75
As played I'd fold on the flop you're a 4:1 dog to make your flush and the pots only laying you about 3:1 your over cards are unlikely to help as I suspect UTG+2 has either a set, 2 pair or flopped staight.
Yeah, and probably less than if someone made their flush w/ 2 other diamonds and/or someone else would draw w/ 1 diamond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDETAS
Quite likely you are behind ott (sets and flushes and straights)- which gives you <=25% equity, you should stove this (less vs sets).
I'm not great at PStove so forgive the question, but How would do you get 25%? When I did it hero vs villains holding AA, 66-44, 87, 32 or any two spades gives me ~15% equity. Am I doing this wrong?

Also, keep in mind that I can't realistically put anyone on a made straight as that would mean they called my PFR (albeit too small) w/ 87 or 32.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
Why raise 2x UTG with AK?

Do you want a big multiway pot? The answer to this is almost "never", unless you have a hand like 22 and are going to play fit or fold anyway. But a big multiway pot is exactly what you get when you raise 2x from early position.
See my question above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
I don't think you have SDV on the turn - a nit raising you has TPTK beat. You are going to need to hit one of your flush outs. If villain already has a flush, then you have 7 outs. There's a good chance other people in this pot have a spade also, reducing your outs further.
Oh yeah, oops, just commented the same thing above.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-17-2011 , 08:57 AM
I can't think of any reason to min raise pre flop. You'll most likely end up in a big multi way pot like above OOP with lots of tricky decisions. When your raise is so small you invite a large range of hands to call so it will be very difficult to know where you are even when you hit your hand.

I'm sure there's a COTW on pre flop raising which will explain the theory better than I can.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote
02-17-2011 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhousepd

Also, keep in mind that I can't realistically put anyone on a made straight as that would mean they called my PFR (albeit too small) w/ 87 or 32
You definitely need to keep 78 in mind here, when else is someone going to play it than in position and only having to pay a min bet? It's begging to be played in this spot IMO, has great implied odds against a strong utg range, and can be easily folded if it whiffs.
Monotone flop &amp; Ace on turn makes TPTK + nut Flush draw. Call shove? (5NL, FR micros) Quote

      
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