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01-21-2022 , 01:08 PM
8 hands on villian, but he is likely fish as he has put in money 6/8 times preflop.

Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 120 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 252.1 BB
MP: 187.3 BB
Hero (CO): 132.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J J

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.8 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 6.2 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 3 4 A
Hero checks, BTN bets 5.8 BB, Hero calls 5.8 BB

Turn: (31.1 BB, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, BTN bets 10.5 BB, Hero raises to 25.4 BB, BTN calls 14.9 BB

River: (81.9 BB, 2 players) T

I made a play that may or may not have worked out, just want to see if there is any logic in checking here?
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01-21-2022 , 03:46 PM
i think the logic that needs an explanation is why you chose to rr turn with Jj XD
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01-22-2022 , 01:54 PM
Hi, harmeu!

I definitely don't like raising on the turn either. The villain gives us great pot odds to realize our equity and our raise turns this equity into a bluff.

AP - check/fold on the river.
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01-22-2022 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyless
Hi, harmeu!

I definitely don't like raising on the turn either. The villain gives us great pot odds to realize our equity and our raise turns this equity into a bluff.

AP - check/fold on the river.
Thanks guys.

I see the logic in playing pot odds and calling to hit trips and get paids from Ax, and even KK QQ. however I felt while that was +EV, the EV in a shove would surpass that in imho. reason being if we do hit our trips, how likely are we to get a river call on a river jack, which imo helps my range more than his? I had him on QQ, KK, or some Ax hand. Hindsight is 2020 though, as he folded river and said he had kings
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01-22-2022 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmeu
Thanks guys.

I see the logic in playing pot odds and calling to hit trips and get paids from Ax, and even KK QQ. however I felt while that was +EV, the EV in a shove would surpass that in imho. reason being if we do hit our trips, how likely are we to get a river call on a river jack, which imo helps my range more than his? I had him on QQ, KK, or some Ax hand. Hindsight is 2020 though, as he folded river and said he had kings
the turn raise was to help solidify that he had a hand like QQ or KK so I could comfortably shove on river, since better hands than that I felt would have re-reaised turn. I could be way off base here (new player and all), but that is the logic I applied.
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01-22-2022 , 03:26 PM
i think ur way off base, and assuming hes gonna play a hand a certain way.

you're essentially bluffing with JJ

not trying to be mean, but id really hammer the point that the turn raise is extremely.. unwise

like.. he 3bets you, has an uncapped range.. and the board is ace high. this is one of the best boards for him, (because often he actually has something good)
so the idea that you'll be bluffing here often is dubious. you do still have bluffs, even on boards that they smash , but, you need to select them thoughtfully... choose hands with little/no made equity to bluff with, that also block the nuts

i really doubt he has 25, so the nuts for all extensive purposes OTF are Ax 44 33 (just the top % of hands)
for your bluff choose a hand that blocks some combo of those, and has crappy value , so you aren't burning a good hand AS a bluff.
same logic applies on turn. if you order all of your hands strongest to weakest, you're raising value and you're raising bluffs, JJ is somewhere in the high end- middle of your value spectrum, which is why it makes no sense to me. You're basically merging, without a good reason to do so IMO.

as a result, you make hands that you beat fold, and get called by everything that beats you. if you chose to raise a better hand, worse will call. if you chose to raise a worse hand, better will fold. youre taking the worst of both worlds approach : )

Last edited by LordPallidan12; 01-22-2022 at 03:47 PM.
[LOW] Quote
01-22-2022 , 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPallidan12
i think ur way off base, and assuming hes gonna play a hand a certain way.

you're essentially bluffing with JJ

not trying to be mean, but id really hammer the point that the turn raise is extremely.. unwise

like.. he 3bets you, has an uncapped range.. and the board is ace high. this is one of the best boards for him, (because often he actually has something good)
so the idea that you'll be bluffing here often is dubious. you do still have bluffs, even on boards that they smash , but, you need to select them thoughtfully... choose hands with little/no made equity to bluff with, that also block the nuts

i really doubt he has 25, so the nuts for all extensive purposes OTF are Ax 44 33 (just the top % of hands)
for your bluff choose a hand that blocks some combo of those, and has crappy value , so you aren't burning a good hand AS a bluff.
same logic applies on turn. if you order all of your hands strongest to weakest, you're raising value and you're raising bluffs, JJ is somewhere in the high end- middle of your value spectrum, which is why it makes no sense to me. You're basically merging, without a good reason to do so IMO.

as a result, you make hands that you beat fold, and get called by everything that beats you. if you chose to raise a better hand, worse will call. if you chose to raise a worse hand, better will fold. you're taking the worst of both worlds approach : )
I appreciate the honest and direct feedback . I guess we disagree that JJ was getting any value there - plus I feel like the fact that the board smashes his range is a reason to play the hand more strongly to get a fold, as more pressure is required to do so. and since In have JJ, it weighs his range even more heavily to having QQ or KK and AQ, AK, due to no blockers. At this point I don't see where JJ has any value except valuetowning my self by betting

Disclaimer: the edibles kicked in harder than expected
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