KK facing raise on connected dry flop - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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KK facing raise on connected dry flop

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01-27-2011 , 02:04 PM

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

No real reads on villain. How's the line here? The river sucks but my plan was to call down, and by that point I felt like I had odds to call. In general should I be giving more credit to raises on dryish board without reads or is this okay?

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Poker Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

CO ($20.82)
Button ($39.41)
SB ($34.06)
BB ($20)
Hero (UTG) ($25)
MP ($7.49)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, K

Hero bets $0.85, 2 folds, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.05) 9

, 7

, 5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.30, Button raises to $3.25, Hero calls $1.95

Turn: ($8.55) 10

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8, Hero calls $8

River: ($24.55) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $16.25, Hero calls $12.90 (All-In)

Total pot: $50.35 | Rake: $2.51

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01-27-2011 , 02:10 PM

As1an1nvas1on

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,352

fold turn

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01-27-2011 , 02:15 PM

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

Quote:

Originally Posted by As1an1nvas1on

fold turn

talk me through it

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01-27-2011 , 02:16 PM

Mark89er

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 10,223

10 is the worst turn possible and he bombs it, so
u level urself into thinking hes ffs call and call river and win think its fine coz he had air this time?

oo btw vrs a flatting pre range this board isnt really that dry and the river card sucked dick hard but i think the turn was the worst card

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01-27-2011 , 02:19 PM

MOBlood

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15

Yes just saying "fold turn" doesn't really help anyone.

Honestly I don't hate the way you played it I think its pretty standard.

What range are you putting him on here? I think he can have TT-AA, 99, 88, 66, 77, 55.

Do you think there is any value in 3-betting on the flop?

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01-27-2011 , 02:20 PM

MOBlood

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark89er

I don't see why the turn card was so brutal bro can you explain?

It didn't complete any straights he wouldn't have had before.

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01-27-2011 , 02:24 PM

Mark89er

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 10,223

sigh me need glasses to read board

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01-27-2011 , 02:24 PM

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOBlood

What range are you putting him on here? I think he can have TT-AA, 99, 88, 66, 77, 55.

Do you think there is any value in 3-betting on the flop?

I expect him to have worse pairs here on the flop and air a good % of the time. Raising flop is probably +EV but he's just going to fold a lot of his worse hands and I think we are strong enough to call down. The river sucks because a bunch of his air gets there. I'm not really convinced that the turn completes a ton of his range here. T9 and TT are the only hands I see that helping...

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01-27-2011 , 06:51 PM

As1an1nvas1on

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,352

like Mark said the 10 just hits villains flatting range pre so hard. You have no reads on villains flop raising tendencies, either it being with OESD's, 2pair, sets, air..

when villain pots the turn against an UTG open, cbet, and flatting a flop raise, i doubt you are ahead here very often unless you know villain can triple barrel air, which you don't.

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01-27-2011 , 09:02 PM

#10

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

What hands do you expect the T to help here?

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01-27-2011 , 09:32 PM

#11

As1an1nvas1on

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,352

109, 1010, 107, J8, and hands like 98 that pick up a lot more equity and can make our lives suck..

my whole point to folding the turn isnt just because the 10 is a terrible card. the board by the turn is terrible altogether.

villain has straights, 2pairs, and sets (99,77,55,97s,75s,68s,910s,1010) all in his range and you have no idea about his flop bluff raising range and turn and river barreling range.

i think you should have reads or know his post flop tendencies before taking this line

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01-27-2011 , 09:42 PM

#12

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

After thinking about this hand a lot more, I think the biggest mistake here that no one mentioned is the river play. The A on the river eliminates ALL of his value hands I was beating. JJ is not shoving that river, and a bunch of his bluff hands got there. That should definitely be a fold.

As1an1nvasion, if he's raising T7 and J8 on that flop, then he probably still has a lot of bluffs left in his range that I'm crushing OTT, right? I think if we assume he's c/r'ing T8, we have to assume we are still far ahead after the T falls.

To me he's repping a set, flopped two pair, pair+gutshots and a lot of overcard bluffs...but maybe I'm way off here in general.

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01-27-2011 , 09:46 PM

#13

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

Quote:

Originally Posted by As1an1nvas1on

i think you should have reads or know his post flop tendencies before taking this line

This is solid advice though, I might be thinking one level past optimal here.

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01-27-2011 , 10:01 PM

#14

As1an1nvas1on

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infection

After thinking about this hand a lot more, I think the biggest mistake here that no one mentioned is the river play. The A on the river eliminates ALL of his value hands I was beating. JJ is not shoving that river, and a bunch of his bluff hands got there. That should definitely be a fold.

As1an1nvasion, if he's raising T7 and J8 on that flop, then he probably still has a lot of bluffs left in his range that I'm crushing OTT, right? I think if we assume he's c/r'ing T8, we have to assume we are still far ahead after the T falls.

To me he's repping a set, flopped two pair, pair+gutshots and a lot of overcard bluffs...but maybe I'm way off here in general.

Villain is not c/r here. He is raising IP against an UTG opener. If villain is positionally aware he may know this is pretty strong against your continuing range.

I just think if we call that turn you have to call any river.. but name one good river card.. maybe a Q..a deuce ball? You are just going to be making way to many marginal calls on the river.

I think a better line if you think villain was bluffing would to be flat his flop raise, and c/r the turn. villain might call with all his 1pair + SD hands, picked up open enders and what not. Makes life easier

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01-27-2011 , 10:27 PM

#15

Infection

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,409

Quote:

Originally Posted by As1an1nvas1on

I think a better line if you think villain was bluffing would to be flat his flop raise, and c/r the turn. villain might call with all his 1pair + SD hands, picked up open enders and what not. Makes life easier

Yeah, this sounds good. Do you think I'm way off thinking he's gotta have bluffs in his range though? Potting the turn really didn't seem like a set to me. And I do think that folding A rivers is a must here if we take my line.

Anyways, I appreciate the analysis...he showed up with AQs and stacked me

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01-27-2011 , 10:39 PM

#16

p_oker

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 338

I agree with As1an1nvas1on, if on the turn you decide your calling down, I think you should just jam it yourself.

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