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KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep
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06-14-2010 , 11:46 AM
#1
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villain was 21/16. 7%3bet. 73 hands. never seen 4 or 5 bets from him



Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $10.15
BTN: $12.67
SB: $19.68
BB: $15.12
Hero (UTG): $20.41
MP: $10.25

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $0.30, 3 folds, SB raises to $0.90, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.30, SB raises to $6.60

Hero????
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 11:50 AM
#2
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200bb deep UTG v SB I think it is a fold. He isn't 5 betting QQ here for value.
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 12:00 PM
#3
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I fold
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 12:20 PM
#4
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Actually he can be 5betting qq for value. He can even do it with jacks. These tightish players at nl10 are tight preflpo but the hands the do play, the play all the way. They don't like 3betting and then calling a 4bet because then they have to play postflop. And 90% of players at these stakes don't like playing postflop. They'd rather hope that their opponent has ak and they can just flip. Since you've already 4bet and he 5bets might as well just shove. They can and will call with worse!
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 12:29 PM
#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlehmke
Actually he can be 5betting qq for value. He can even do it with jacks. These tightish players at nl10 are tight preflpo but the hands the do play, the play all the way. They don't like 3betting and then calling a 4bet because then they have to play postflop. And 90% of players at these stakes don't like playing postflop. They'd rather hope that their opponent has ak and they can just flip. Since you've already 4bet and he 5bets might as well just shove. They can and will call with worse!

Totally agree
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06-14-2010 , 12:42 PM
#6
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why - are - you - 4betting - ?
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 01:02 PM
#7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondguess
why - are - you - 4betting - ?
This.
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 01:07 PM
#8
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Don't 4b if u plan to be a puss bag
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 01:27 PM
#9
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i can confirm that it is possible to get KK in 200+ deep against QQ

of course it wasn't against a 21/16...
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 01:33 PM
#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondguess
why - are - you - 4betting - ?
why not 4 bet? i understand we have position, but when the flop comes 5 8 10 rainbow are we just open folding on the flop?
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 01:46 PM
#11
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No we're not folding to the cbet on pretty much any board without soulreads. And for one thing flatting is good cause we're never folding anything.
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 01:48 PM
#12
EATITPAL
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Flat 3b if your not comfortable getting it in.
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06-14-2010 , 02:13 PM
#13
secondguess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chok1
why not 4 bet? i understand we have position, but when the flop comes 5 8 10 rainbow are we just open folding on the flop?
Because this villain is never calling OOP, and we're thinking about folding once he 5bets. So -presumably- we're making everything fold that we beat, and get shoved on by AA.

Obviously we're never open folding an xxx flop against a QQ+,AK and garbage range.
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 02:22 PM
#14
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I also think flatting the 3 bet is better but this deep I think he can be flatting the 4 bet with a relatively wide range. But his 5 bet range is probably pretty much AA and nothing else.

At least I wouldn't make a commmiting 5 bet 200bb deep with less than AA
without some serious history.

BTW if he was CO I think 4b/f is a good line because he would then be IP and would presumably flat a much wider range. No??
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 02:29 PM
#15
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At people saying why 4bet/fold, it's pretty standard if we don't think we can get it in comfortably when he 5bets (ie he's only 5betting KK+) since he'll call our 4bet a lot.
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06-14-2010 , 02:42 PM
#16
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Get it in, he prolly doesn't know he's not supposed to be doing this so deep with JJ+,AK. I've seen people go broke with much less. And this is 10NL. Shove, win 62% of the time, be happy.
KK deep do we fold pre? 200bb deep Quote
06-14-2010 , 03:04 PM
#17
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200bb deep you should pretty much always be 4balling this imo. As played don't fold.
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06-14-2010 , 03:34 PM
#18
Roy G Basch
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At 10nl I think you could safely say that you should never fold KK preflop. People show up with all kinds of stuff.
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