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KK 200bb, wtf on the turn KK 200bb, wtf on the turn

06-19-2008 , 02:30 AM
Hero $ 820 in SB with pocket Kings, with no club
Villian cutoff $840

PRE-FLOP
villain bets $16, X folds, HERO raises to $80 villian calls

FLOP [board cards 2,6,8 all clubs ]
hero bets $ 160 villian calls

TURN [board cards 2,6,8 9 still three clubs ]
hero checks, villian shoves , hero ?

Villian is playing TAG 22/14 ish, he hasnt been getting out of line.

Last edited by LuckyfishZ; 06-19-2008 at 02:54 AM.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 03:06 AM
Your reraise is too big, I don't think he continues with that many hands.
I hate to narrow down ranges this much but this smells like AcKc, AA , possibly QQ.

I don't like the flop bet, it's too big. No need to pot it here really.

Bottom line, it's close and with this much money in the pot I think you gotta call as played.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 03:11 AM
Re-raise smaller preflop, that raise is way too big, 'protecting' your hand is just making it obvious what you have.

The flop is ok but I probably bet 2/3, and I bet/fold the turn with a smaller pot, and shove all rivers.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 02:35 PM
My standard raise preflop is 3x, but i go 4x opp, and 5x if im deep and opp.

I guess betting less on the flop was much better play though.. but the presense of three clubs made my decision very difficult on the turn as I thought the villian could shove with any JJ QQ AA AK AQ with one club...Does anybody fold the turn as played? it turned out he floped a set with 88, goddam fish calls me $80 preflop with 88 !
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyfishZ
goddam fish calls me $80 preflop with 88 !
yarrrn

you want this to happen

/yarrrn
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyfishZ
My standard raise preflop is 3x, but i go 4x opp, and 5x if im deep and opp.

I guess betting less on the flop was much better play though.. but the presense of three clubs made my decision very difficult on the turn as I thought the villian could shove with any JJ QQ AA AK AQ with one club...Does anybody fold the turn as played?
Ironically, the deeper you are the LESS you should be betting preflop and on the flop, especially out of position. Somewhere around 200BB, the rules change about what types of hands you should be willing to get all your chips into the middle with, and concepts like pot control and speculative preflop hand ranges become much more important.

At typical 100BB stacks, this is an instacall; at 200BB, this is a tough but necessary fold against most opponents (IMHO.)

By the way, Semoleus gives an EXCELLENT discussion on deeper stacked play in his Cash Plays podcast interview: http://www.pokerroad.com/cash_plays/3-31-08/

Last edited by cl0r0x70; 06-19-2008 at 04:47 PM.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grogheadflow7
yarrrn

you want this to happen

/yarrrn
Not if you're going to stack off to him when he hits. . . . Any time you bet, you need to have already decided what you're going to do if you're reraised.

Last edited by cl0r0x70; 06-19-2008 at 04:48 PM.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-19-2008 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl0r0x70
Ironically, the deeper you are the LESS you should be betting preflop and on the flop, especially out of position. Somewhere around 200BB, the rules change about what types of hands you should be willing to get all your chips into the middle with, and concepts like pot control and speculative preflop hand ranges become much more important.

At typical 100BB stacks, this is an instacall; at 200BB, this is a tough but necessary fold against most opponents (IMHO.)

By the way, Semoleus gives an EXCELLENT discussion on deeper stacked play in his Cash Plays podcast interview: http://www.pokerroad.com/cash_plays/3-31-08/
thanx i will take a look at it.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote
06-20-2008 , 12:07 AM
Bet smaller preflop and flop, and against a tight player 2nd barrel him on the turn when 4th club didn't hit is far better than checking.

Your bet sizes and the turn check pot-committed villain to either a bluff or a semi-bluff with outs if you don't fold to a shove.
KK 200bb, wtf on the turn Quote

      
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