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JUNGLEMAN WELL JUNGLEMAN WELL

05-08-2010 , 03:36 PM
Appreciate you doing this. Have a couple questions.

Seems like you're pretty big on playing regs. Was that always the case for you while moving up in stakes? It seems pretty hard to get action from most regs at lower stakes.

You said you started very small at HU cash.. Any chance you could post a graph of your transition through the stakes?

Do you smoke? Before/during/after sessions? Regardless, thoughts on that?

Thanks again
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-08-2010 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by variatsioon
how to u motivate yourself to play?

any unique tilt strategies?
tilting is one of my weaknesses, the only ways to really deal with it it seems are to ignore it/take a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceavou22
Hey jungleman thanks for doing this!

How much game theory knowledge do you have?

Are you explicitly implementing game theory in to how you play poker and control your ranges or do you just use logic to balance when you need to and have a rudimentary understanding of game theory (like Jman)?

Are you using programs like stoxEV or Hold'em Forge?

How much of a concern is balance when you are playing a tough reg like Ike/Sauce/etc or just in general? Or are you just focused on exploiting your opponent, playing leveling games, making plays for meta-game? eg. you 3barrel A48r 4 T (no BDFD) in a 3bet pot with complete air (J9o for arguments sake), are you doing this in the context of having a balanced strategy or is it to get into your opponents head and show him your crazy/capable of anything etc?

Assume we're playing HUNL against a very tough opponent who is well balanced:

Thoughts on flatting 4bets 100bb deep? I understand the merits of it but it just seems impossible to balance a 4bet calling range as well as a 5bet shoving range, yet so many good players flat 4bets and I assume they wouldn't be doing it at the stakes they play if it was easy to exploit.

Is there a stacksize you think it becomes ok or optimal to have a 4bet flatting range?

Or should we just not have a 3betting range at a certain stack depth?

What separates a winning 25/50 reg from a winning 5/10 and 10/20 reg?

Any tips on tilt control ?

Thank you very much for doing this!
I don't know THAT much about game theory, but it provides useful solutions to approaching at least some spots. Usually I just do w/e I think is most profitable though, not w/e game theory says I should do.

I've used stoxev a little bit, particularly for finding general solutions to general questions. "Should I call on the turn if X card falls?" "What % of the time does a guy need to be bluffing on X river if he has x% of hands?" etc

The more common the spot the more likely balance is needed as a general rule, because if you are unbalanced the other guy (if he's paying attention) will notice. In some spots balance doesn't apply at all, and in rarer and/r other spots it's probably a mistake to balance--it's usually a mistake to focus exclusively on balance. Exploiting is usually a priority, after all if youre not exploiting someone how are you winning money off them? I sometimes do things I think MIGHT be good/ not horrible for the sake of communicating something (this is meta game right?), but otherwise I'm doing something on the belief that I think it's profitable. If I barrel J9 on A844T, it's because I think he will fold A9/AJ, or calls the turn with enough marginal hands that river bluff is profitable. If he calls me with A2, I'd hope that I'd adjust by not bluffing there ever again.

Flatting a lot of 4bets (with weak hands) almost can't be a good strategy vs someone that handreads well in 4bet pots. 4betting has the same advantage over the other guy that 3betting does, except now the other guy is oop. At certain stacksizes it probably can be good to flat better hands oop, especially hands like AK, JJ, etc; sure.

Lots and lots of things separate a 5/10 player between a 25/50 player, as a general rule the 25/50 player will tend to be better at everything.

Whether you 3bet a lot or little, including deep, mostly depends on how many hands the other guy is playing and how he responds to 3bets/ plays in 3bet pots. If a guy is playing 100% of sbs, defends every single 3bet, but c/folds 60% in a 3bet pot, then 3betting 35% is going to show a big profit.


For tilting just try to remember that nothing good will come from playing worse than you usually do, and that it works against what you want. It's best to be avoided altogether if possible...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
You ever play in any of the college park home games?
Rarely, but occasionally I play usually on/near campus. Microstakes ftw!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipitFMA
rather be a ninja or samurai? why?
ninja b/c they are more badass than samurai's, and also samurais are kind of bound to killing themselves if they commit a serious offense/have been humiliated
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-08-2010 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICMoney
Everyone might want to watch ep 4 of the behind the grind vid.

In that vid he answered pretty much every question that's been asked a dozen times already.

Jungle is the illest
where can i watch it? can u post a link?
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-08-2010 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightshiver
where can i watch it? can u post a link?
cardrunners
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05-08-2010 , 04:15 PM
ty for this jungleman. poker story too incase you forget. sure alot of us would like to hear it
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05-08-2010 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightshiver
where can i watch it? can u post a link?
http://www.cardrunners.com/Zaitsev/Z...2C+part+4+of+4

“Behind the Grind” goes up close and personal with another MSNL celebrity, Jungleman12. This Week: Let’s get casual with an all-out interview on the nuances of heads up play, plus the boys go over a few hand histories.
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-08-2010 , 04:49 PM
You mentioned how beneficial a hud has been to your game. Does that continue to apply against players your more familiar with? Do you look to your stats for indications of gear changing or alterations in lines taken by guys like Ike or Isildur?


congrats on all your success
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-08-2010 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleman
...Def table select, but don't exclusively play fish if you want to be especially successful (you can have bigger edges vs regs anyway)...
I think this is interesting. Could you explain this a bit more. Do the bigger edges vs regs come because you kind of have their mind already(ABC poker) and know what they are doing thus making hand reading easier, and as long as you know how to go to the next level, it makes them more exploitable? It seems to me that as players improve, hand reading can become more precise and regs become more predictable. How do you sort of know when to take it to the next level? Is it common now for you to see a dry board and be like, "ok, this guy is cbetting this a lot because it's a dry board so I'm going to c/r wide" or "I know this guy is probably checking back this wet board because it isn't a good board to cbet and he probably doesn't want to get checkraised so I'm going to barrel him."
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-09-2010 , 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleman
For tilting just try to remember that nothing good will come from playing worse than you usually do
Should be on a motivational poster imo.
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-09-2010 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regret$
Should be on a motivational poster imo.
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05-09-2010 , 05:42 AM
what does kaintd77/iilioiil do differently from other bumhunters, besides playing 12hr days?

someone else posted this, but im curious still
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-09-2010 , 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipchip
what does kaintd77/iilioiil do differently from other bumhunters, besides playing 12hr days?

someone else posted this, but im curious still
Hopefully Jungleman isn't going to give an answer to this that helps prospective hardcore bumhunters.
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-09-2010 , 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer_time
Hopefully Jungleman isn't going to give an answer to this that helps prospective hardcore bumhunters.
ehm every heads up player plays a decent amount of fish too, so its interesting anyway.
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-09-2010 , 10:29 AM
are you joining cardrunners for money or ego/notoriety? you must think it is -EV for your poker?
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05-09-2010 , 10:55 AM
what was the most expensive thing u bought from pokermoneys?

do u spend ur money wisely or r u more a balller?

do you find it hard to motivate urself for college/studys?
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05-09-2010 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by viennashaker
K i just caME BACK FROM THe ThurstyT turtle and i am realy drunk like really so this is only half a joke...l if i go out with you one night to some bar in Cp.. CaN i GHET 20 MINUTES OF COACHING IN POKER FOR EVERY GIRL YOU MAEK OUT WITH WHEN GE go out? an 2 hours for evry girl you ****? I am seriosus lol bcaus CP girls are easy and i respect you so let me know if this is cooll..I ilve in MD so just let me know if we got a deal my bro peace //
K pLEASE ignore this .. Was a really crazy night and i was an idiot at the time lol..

How important do you feel talking to other players is? Do you think its possible for a players that never discusses poker with friends to succeed?

How much time did it take you to become a really good PLO player once you decided to learn the game better??

Last edited by viennashaker; 05-09-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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05-09-2010 , 05:32 PM
You told in other post that you got 98yr Lexus from parents when you got 15.

So you were baller before poker and from rich family ?
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05-09-2010 , 05:46 PM
play me 50nl hu
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05-09-2010 , 05:50 PM
can we get a urnot v jungleman 200nl hu match or something? so we find out who the REAL king is
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05-09-2010 , 06:17 PM
hello ive only played hu nlhe since i leared poker but im trying to get into hu plo. in hold'em my strategy is basically to focus on peoples bluff & value ranges and what they do with them, in omaha you cant really do this right? can you talk abot how you categorize opponents hands in plo?
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-09-2010 , 06:40 PM
This question is about mining information from showdowns and fully integrating all the information available into proper adjustments. It seems like it's easy to glaze over certain implications of information gained at showdown and how certain actions effect other parts of a villains range in later hands. I'm curious how a person can get good at not missing any of the implications of a showdown hand and learning to know what a certain action on a certain street means for the rest of his range.

It's easy to say, see that a villain is calling down way too light and adjust to a more thin valuebetting strategy for example, but seemingly more difficult to notice other things like if a player is betting in a certain spot, how that effects his ranges when he checks, checkraises, or checkcalls.

I'm tired of missing stuff and not adjusting to available info. Thanks.
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05-09-2010 , 11:21 PM
bummmmmpppp this off of the second ****ing page
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05-10-2010 , 02:29 AM
If you were to move down and randomly play .25/.50 hu do you think you would win like 80% of your sessions or is there too much variance for your skill to give you that much of an edge?

Can you recommend any coaches in particular with no bias for NLHU or 6max games that are <200 per hr?

Last edited by Gravity69; 05-10-2010 at 02:58 AM.
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-10-2010 , 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LooseCaller
what kind of away from the table poker study has been most beneficial?

what, if anything, would you do differently in the way you progressed through stakes?

how many hours a week did you devote to away from the table study during the period when you were learning hu cash?

how do you decide when to quit?
Probably videos, sometimes friends are very useful also.

Nothing, actually, except maybe spend more time at 10/20 and not battling all the best regs at 25/50 off the bat :P . Would have probably made life easier if I had known how much stronger some guys at 25/50 were

Not that many really, much of it happened natural--if a movie that I thought might be good came out, I'd watch it. If me or urnotindanger2 came up with an idea, we would talk about it. etc

I either I've lost enough, not in the mood, out of action, I'll quit. Sometimes I get too pissed to sign off though until it gets late :P , but that's probably not a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeandmirrors
Do you have any thoughts on games dying/if you're worried the games will "dry up"? How are you keeping your options open, if at all?
I'm trying to finish graduating but also I'm expanding my options via plo/other kinds of games and investing the money I've won. Hopefully the games will not ever dry up, let's keep our fingers crossed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeckardCain
Most baller thing you've done with your winnings so far?

How do you handle your downswings in HU?

Did you have a stop loss per session/day when you played/moving up?

Did you regularly challenge regs at the stake you were trying to beat before you moved up, like actively seek them out and sit at their tables?
Through partybus/buy table type deels at clubs. Vid of the bus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VdTMUF1BwQ

I'm looking to buy a somewhat flashy car soon :P , but not too flashy!

Really the only thing you can do is review your sessions, and take a break to get your mind off the loss. Normally I just go out or play video games until I forget about it.

Not really, but a stop loss is a good idea particularly when playing competent regs.

Yes, always. I wouldn't move up until I thought I could beat most of everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Impact
What is your advice for determining what level your opponent is on?


(At low stakes, I find it difficult sometimes to figure out if I can say "he knows this" or "he wouldn't bet with ___ here because it looks like I have ___", etc, etc.)
The concept of level is vague I think, again every player has their tendencies in different spots and it's important to figure them out rather than ascribe them to a certain "level" of thought. One reg might be aware of a certain bluff spot, for example, and also think youre exploiting them in every bluff spot imaginable etc while another, knowing the same spot, will tend to fold in that spot for some reason or another. Another might not know of the spot but knows of a spot the other two don't know about!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGgarycaldwell
How important do you think intelligence (in the sense of IQ, school tests etc) is in becoming a good/great poker player? What hinders someone who is smart in this way from reaching the higher levels of poker (i.e. being a winning 10/20 non-bumhunting reg)?

I remember reading you post a while back something along the lines of you "rarely respect other people's intelligence but you respected Isildur1's." What did you mean by this?

Also, how do you learn/study poker in non-playing sessions? Do you use stoxev type tools?
As with many things I'm sure intelligence correlates to being good at poker, but I doubt it's THAT related esp considering how vague the concept of "IQ" is. I would guess many truly great online players are very smart though.

I created kind of a unique strategy vs isildur, and he eventually figured it out and totally countered at least aspects of it, which is why he owned me so hard that one time at 1/2. I didn't run THAT bad :O . It's really rare that someone figures out a number of the things and totally counters them as he did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kook
are you superstitious?
No, although I want to believe that everything is inherently "fair" and that ultimately everything in life "balances out" by principle. This might appear to be impossible based on our current observance of the world--It appears rational to, in some cases, do really bad things when consequences are observed because it appears that net gain out of an evil action might result in the greatest EV for an individual. This implies the world is inherently bad, because reason demands it to be: How can it make sense to differ from reason? One of my blog posts was about how someone doing something ugly but seemingly demanded by prudence (in this case because only the present and future time frame was observed), was actually not prudent/logical if the frame of perspective was widened (in this case to and past time frame as well ie the stipulations requiring the conditions). I meant to imply that through this, there is a possibility that our perspective on reality is incomplete and that the apparent conclusion that the world isn't fair could be wrong.

My post was a bit vague in it's purpose, also Im a little high
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drasis
If villain 3bets the first hand of a match, what is your defending range? Would this vary from 200NL to 2k and 5kNL?

First few hands of a match you have a bluff catcher on the river that is ahead of villain's entire bluffing range and behind his entire value range, and you estimate the call to be slightly -EV in and of itself (unless villain turns out to be a maniac), but not far from neutral EV. Do you call the third barrel more often than not? What factors (beyond board textures) help you determine whether or not to call when you are still readless?
Probably 98s+, ATo+,A8s+, J9s+ 66/77+, k9s+, Q9s+, QJo+, KT unless I knew something about the other guy

Not really, I guess I would defend a little lighter to an nl200 open unless nl200 players tend to 3bet less?

I'd probably be more inclined to call if I thought a call was slightly -EV; ofc value range combos and # of possible combos of bluffs help for whether to call or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyfishZ
what sources do you use to improve? What do u rely the most? what was the most helpful? ( trainin vids, forum, poker friends, etc)

Did u play durrrrr because u thought u had an edge on him? or because u thought it would be fun?
Prob training vids and poker friends esp, the forum is somewhat useful. At many times when I review my play I focus solely on the EV (not necessarily balance or anything else) and usually trust my judgment strongly.

lol what do you think ^^, hopefully it would be fun as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alea
When you were moving up from 0.25c/0.5c to 5/10, what % of the time that you devoted to poker did you spend:

1) playing
2) reviewing specific sessions and hands
3) studying theory and working on an overall strategy, to a deeper level

Did this change at the higher stakes?

Thanks in advance.
At lower stakes, after watching a few random vids, mostly playing. I was forced to review more and more as I went higher in stakes, but I specifically reviewed not too often. I suppose I studied theory as a matter of habbit, I would watch vids, listen to other's ideas, and test the ideas being put down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmil23
can you offer me anything for a sc2 beta key?
ah no, I'm just going to buy the game when it comes out

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureDiesel
Do u think u'll do 10 pull-ups and 30 push-ups(in a set) before u make your next cool million?
JK, man. Thanks for doing this and GL!

How do you restrain your ego in HU match, when opponent makes annoying play and happens to run couple times in a row into very bottom of my range in that spot, beeing ultra-lucky?

Which way is best to improve? Just grind, grind, grind or having some proportion of grind/study? And which way is most efficient to study for not naturally talented player?
Probably, I can at least do 30 push-ups in a set :P , dunno about 10 pull ups.

I don't think lashing out at my opponents is profitable or cool, so I try to restrain myself for that reason... Sometimes I overreact though and explode :S Once again objectivity is ideal, but admittedly difficult.

Def both, and talent doesn't only reside in sheer inner processing ability/intelligence/ w/e. One reason I'm probably not as talented at basketball is because more natural basketball players pay attention to more details that matter than I do when playing basketball (maybe this is because they are more interested in it?). Likewise, I'm paying attention to more details that matter than many ppl as well as myself in the past. Simple ex: When I first started poker I didn't consider the position of my opponents, which obviously was a big issue. You need to train your mind to notice the subtleties in poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECart
you smell bad, what do you plan on doing about it?

also, i think i already know the answer to this, but who is high more often. you or urnotindanger2?

last but not least, would you rather spend your life working a regular job rolling in cash/luxury or would you rather play poker your entire life, but only make an average wage?
I used to smell bad, but I don't anymore :P . urnotindanger2 obv

Idk, I think maybe the first. It would also probably be stressful to play something as volatile as poker for only mediocre wage. Having all the power in the world is quite a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glpmurray
Thanks for doing this!

Go into detail your daily routine?

Name 5 factors which makes you better than other regs

What do you see yourself doing in 5 and 10 years?

Do you think mid to high stakes HU will stay profitable for long?

Are you happy playing poker for a living? Could you imagine doing anything else?
Get up at 10-2, either go to school or do other poker related things such as coaching, maybe work out, then either play poker, homework, something social, or occasionally play video games/relax. Bed at 12-5. I dislike routine but this summarizes many of my days.


Probably, at least for a few more years. I think the time now isn't so much an issue of online poker dieing but more of one that people are now more likely to approach poker as something to be taken seriously and thus more likely to be bum hunting regs than be fish. This results in less fish appearing because the bum hunter : fish ratio is much higher than it used to be.

Yes, not really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossa1985
what have been the most important differences and adjustments you saw and made between 5/10 and 25/50?
I've answered this question previously, it's a whole bunch of differences instead of a single concept. 25/50 players are better than 5/10 players on the whole, but not necessarily in every individual aspect/

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2GAYE
Come on guys, how has no one asked for garphs yet...? At least post your graph vs durrrr w/ redline and AIEV. I want to SEE THIS MILLION DOLLAR SWING MAN!

No real questions as far as poker strategy, I think you already gave me all the answers =) But a few other things:

How do you justify coaching and making vids for CR? Is it largely intrinsic value and variance considerations (doubt this since you play 300/600). Can you honestly say you put your full effort into your videos or do you hold back some stuff as to not give away your thought process?

Dan vs. Scott HU HA: Who wins?

Who do you think is the most "gifted" poker player as far as capacity to become great/the best that you have come across (besides yourself)?

Who has the 2nd best spidey senses (1st being ZJ obv)?

Who is a tougher opponent, tcorbin or luckychewy?
We'll see :P , I like it + it's good for reputation and 0 variance income.

I think scott has a good feel for my bluffing tendencies etc :P , scott is up lifetime on me but he's run pretty hot and it has been a while!

possibly scott, i've learned quite a bit from him

Halozination on FT has the soul read, he clicks call and is always right lol.

I think my general strategy counters luckychewy's and tcorbin's does vice versa, but I think luckychewy's would be difficult for many.
JUNGLEMAN WELL Quote
05-10-2010 , 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBeard
Will you coach me if I give you a handjob?
if you are a girl, maybe we can work something out haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdonkey
Do you attribute any of your success to coaches/books/vids - if you do, then which ones?
again, dogishead helped me with plo...not so much books, but again all the main sites' training vids

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpar1
Without namings names, are there any ppl u wont play nlhu say 100/200? Biggest degen moment not including McDonals (lol @ that btw)... What would u do for a living if no poker (not including McDonalds)?
There are <= 2 probably :P , Biggest degen moment is either continuing to play durrrr while stuck 500+k or isildur when stuck over half my role.

Eh, write programming or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicecatch08
your a tool.

Did you go to UMD, and did you finish? If not, do you plan on finishing?
I still go to UMD and I'm a junior there. I plan on finishing although there's def merit in not finishing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamas6
do you feel you have missed out on anything due to playing so much poker? what do you regret? what would you do differently?

has your confidence with girls increased since you moved up stakes?

do people who don't understand poker very well ask you to double up there moeny for them?
I regret not getting better grades and letting the rest of the world slip by, in some instances I feel someone alienated from other college students. I'm not sure if I would do much differently now though except for start playing micros online earlier, else I might have had the same extent of success.

yeah, somewhat, as does possessing any positive trait

yes, it's somewhat annoying

Quote:
Originally Posted by dotbum
Please to be avoiding trolls in awesome thread.

Thanks for doing it, Jungleman (even if you did ignore my PM ).
I must not have seen it, I usually respond to most pms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NostraDonkus
There's not too much I wouldn't do for a meelllion dollars. Now that you have over that, what things wouldn't you be willing to do anymore? Would you still do them for 100 meellion?
For 100 million, I just might :O
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