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JJ, raising the turn JJ, raising the turn

10-12-2009 , 07:35 PM
The villian that donks was 64/19/4 over 46 hands. the CO was 19/15/0 over 29. i want to ask about the turn, this is a defo raise i think but what do we do to a shove on the turn? tho i think the donk donks weak made hands and draws, whilst the TAG guy calling twice seems to indicate weakness, so i raise for value and many river cards hurt my hand, not expecting a shove at all. basically evaluate my line please uNL

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $52.20
Hero (BTN): $52.75
SB: $53.75
BB: $54.85
UTG: $56.60

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with J J
UTG calls $0.50, CO raises to $2, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.50

Flop: ($6.75) 5 T 4 (3 players)
UTG bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

Turn: ($14.25) 6 (3 players)
UTG bets $3.50, CO calls $3.50, Hero raises to $13
JJ, raising the turn Quote
10-12-2009 , 07:38 PM
ye this a def raise on the flop.
JJ, raising the turn Quote
10-12-2009 , 07:51 PM
with UTG being a donk, once CO calls Im pretty confident I have the best hand on the flop, so this is a good spot to raise for protection/value
JJ, raising the turn Quote
10-12-2009 , 07:56 PM
no 3bet pre?
JJ, raising the turn Quote
10-12-2009 , 08:01 PM
It's kind of a funky hand.

First, I'm wondering if you should 3-bet pre. I think you should.

Seems like CO is playing a decent TAG game at 19/15. His isolation raise is a good size. I think we can infer that he he knows what he's doing. He's isolating a 64/19 limper in position. I expect he's isolating the fish with a fairly wide range.

When you call the isolation raise, you're pretty much set mining with JJ in a 3-way pot... which is OK. On this flop texture, you do happen to have an overpair, but on most textures, you have to check or check/fold. However, you almost always have the best hand pre-flop. Another reason for 3-betting pre for value against any takers (ideally UTG).

As played, I would make my move on the flop... the donk bet is pretty weak/spastic, and CO's call means nothing. Maybe raise/fold if you get action from both villains, and raise/get it in if you get action from just one villain (again, ideally UTG).
JJ, raising the turn Quote
10-12-2009 , 08:02 PM
CO most likely has Ax diamonds, or possibly even some lower pocket pair. Given that UTG limped twice he's probably got some decent playable hand but for the most part of you have his range crushed. Because so many turn cards can kill your action as JJ you have to raise flop. I would try to take the pot right there with a strong raise to around ~12 and shove the turn on any card that we aren't afraid of.

As played, you're so deep into this hand and 6h isn't too bad of a turn card so I can't really see myself folding to a shove here. If he got a set or straight somewhere I guess I lose my stack.
JJ, raising the turn Quote
10-12-2009 , 08:07 PM
You missed a good opportunity to squeeze on the flop; a pot sized raise of that weak utg bet and the passive call from the pf aggressor should have picked up the pot right there or at least allow you to reevaluate on the turn.

You have another opportunity to squeeze on the draw-heavy turn, but you're laying almost 3.5:1; you will probably get called by any flush draw and maybe any 7 in play. Unfortunately, a substantial raise designed to chase off the draws here leaves you with commitment issues should the CO decide to muscle up after your raise. Your weak raise on the turn seems designed to see a showdown for cheap rather than get rid of any legitimate threat.

Given the action on the turn, I'm guessing that UTG paired the T or is hoping a pair of 8s is good, and CO is chasing a flush with one or two overs. If you're going to raise the turn, bet more; but as you've surmised, the flop is when you wanted to put in the substantial raise.
JJ, raising the turn Quote

      
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