(Originally posted on the CR forums, but figured it couldn't hurt seeing as this is pretty typical...)

I'm playing 25NL at about 23/20 raising PF with a hand like AJo generally against loose passive opponents playing something like a 25%-40% hand range

Scenario 1:
Hero raises from CO or button to 3x and gets called from early position. flop falls and villain donks in for same 3x bet size into my missed flop.

I feel like I have a line ingrained in my subconscious (a la cbet missed flop) but then feel totally lost way too often once that donk bet comes in and sit there trying to decipher what the hell that means.. I look at the pot, and feel stuck cuz I don't have much to work with on the board, but I feel like I'm making a bad fold(feel stupid) when I can't call the same [now] small flop bet size I opened with PF.

Scenario 2:
Hero raises 3x from same position and same villain call, but he instead leads out with a min bet.

Similar to the first, but the donk bet is much easier to call now, then I usually end up folding to his bigger bet on the turn.

What do these bets typically mean? How would you play these spots?

I never really checked the actual percentages for their "folds to flop raise" but noticed that a lot of people I've experienced these particular lines with hardly fold to an initial flop bet somewhere like 30% or less "folds to F bet".

I guess this is where I get a bit stuck, because it feels like I call/raise only to see him call and then bet the same stupid amount out again on the turn leaving me with either

A)a very transparent call after raising the flop so he makes me fold to a big river bet, or

B)committing more than I want on another raise which now becomes a big bluff (if I don't catch the turn) almost leaving me committed to any further action.

Or he just opens hard on the turn and I fold after bleeding money.

I have used the 3bet against a donk-lead flop to about 50-60% success but I'm having a hard time finding the answers to the results. Is it just something I have to test with everyone that does this at least once and go from there?

Obviously I'm not the only one struggling with this issue, so anybody with insight or other questions relating to it, please give/ask.

scenario one is usually an easy fold, dont get an ego with air just cuz you were the pfr

scenario two, raise it up, see how they react and take a note. most people seem to fold when u raise their donk minbet, but if they dont, now u know and can stop

I treat mindonks as a check if I don't know what it means. Though it shouldn't take many hands before you figure out what it means for him. Some do it only with drawing hands, some do it and fold 90% to a raise and some do it whenever they hit any piece of the board and don't give up easily anymore. It really should never be a problem. They just donate a BB to the pot oop without gaining info from you.

The lead is usually a fold with just 2 overs, when players do it too often it becomes easily exploitable by floating, bluffraising, taking them to valuetown etc.

Scenario 1 mostly occurs when you're cbetting the same person to often.
Of course you have to fold the first and maybe the second time he's donking into you. I have to struggle with this problem, too. My stats are nearly yours. When I'm HU IP with the same player I don't cbet even with the right cirumstances, I just check behind. I mix up my play. You don't have to cbet at every opportunity. Mostly they will fire the turn and you can fold/call/raise big.

Scenario 2: Minbets I treat as a check and raise it big. If you get a call, you have to evaluate new.

Damn, you posted exactly what I wanted to post.

The most common danger lines with scenario 2 are

FLOP: vil min-bet, hero raise, vil call.
TURN: vil min-bet, hero raise, vil call.
RIVER: vil LOL-IN!/PSB

and

FLOP: vil min-bet, hero raise, vil call.
TURN: vil min-bet, hero call.
RIVER: vil LOL-IN!/PSB

Villain always has a hand here. Always.

might a agree with this a little. these lines are always the best tho.

So when would you decide you play back at the first scenario then?
And assuming you do, would it be standard line to flat call, or raise yet again? I personally can't see it being better to call than raise ever for the same reason you would in scenario two.

best as in simple situations to figure out where you are in the hand?

just raise the flop minbet with air, made hands, and monsters. I guess if board isn't too drawy you could almost call a turn minidonk for pot control in case of weak made hand