Correct, there could be some very good bots, that have no tilt and make good money and that is unethical and something needs to be done about it. But that said, realizing how a bot works, that it reads your stats doesn't ,make any emotional decisions and will tend to be very polarized as a bot would be, you should be able to exploit:

How, think outside the box. Adjust bet sizing to weird amounts, realizing the bot is focused more on the action of a raise then the size. Also, realizing that it knows your raise cbet percent is low, raise more as bluffs etc.

So your solution to beating a bot that is potentially already playing better than you is to play worse? Either you're vastly underestimating the processing power and capabilities of a modern bot or I'm overestimating their capabilities. In any event, if I'm wrong I will only be wrong for awhile longer whereas if you are right, you will only be right for awhile longer.

I studied electrical engineering at uni and also computer design... I understand these things If you mix things up a bot could never keep up with you. Trouble is being sure if it is a bot or not...

So did I and I'm pretty sure you aren't right. No reason why the programmers can't or haven't dealt with cases such as you are talking about.

To be honest, if anyone has actually thought through this issue and still thinks that no bot would ever be +EV against them then it's prob best to leave them to enjoy their own delusion. No amount of debate will convince them otherwise, no matter how obvious it is that they are incorrect.

Lol, i'm not saying that a bot couldn't be +ev vs a player, but a good player should be able to adjust and spin the wheels quicker than a bot. The brain is always more powerful than a bot, but if you are hardly beating higher stake regs than sure, you probably aren't going to think of how to beat a bot.

The point is, that a bot is completely different than a human so to beat them you need to think like them. Realize that they can't read game flow, that they have a defined value for your stats and don't read that you might be playing different today.

I don't know why you guys doubt yourselves so much. Clearly if you studied elec engineering you were probably like the rest of the people in the classes that didn't really understand things. I actually designed breast detection sensors, did software design for diabetes glucose controllers and prediction models for blood sugar levels based on intake foods, and other things after school. I understand you can build a good bot, but someone smart, will be able to understand the bases of every action that a machine is going under, where as humans are very unpredictable with mood, emotion, varying logic etc. A good bot will be designed to take optimal plays and slowly cruise through opponents and sure if someone doesn't know it is a bot, and doesn't adjust or think differently they will slowly take that 2ptbb/100 off you.

Sigh, we'll just have to disagree - even though you are 100% wrong. And I'm not going to start talking about programming experience, science degrees, money made at the tables etc because it's little bit childish and pointless. Most people will see you are way off but you evidently won't until the evidence hits you full in the face a few years from now.

Had fullstack bot like stats and had really weird/ almost programmed timing in certain spots. (Calling a large turn bet v a wild fish and being pot committed with a bluffcatcher and then taking forever on the river v a 1/8 pot all in after a blank rolled off) Making decisions on other tables, so no disconnect.

yup thats fine. I don't agree and think the bots need to be gone. but for now I just min 4bet them and min 3bet flops and they always fold without it And yes i see there is now a bot from canada

The one thing i find funny copThis, is your negative attitude. Do you have no confidence in yourself? Who knows maybe a bot can beat me, but I'm sure as hell not going to be defeated before I start. These things are bad for the game and obviously we need a solution and some help from the sites to discover and block them, but honestly i'm not afraid of them, Ill just choose to believe in my abilities to adapt, you can believe you are crushed and we can agree to disagree and both work towards a solution

I would recommend not vsing bots all together its poor table selection IMO they are mathematically programmed with no tilt factor. Seriously, PP? $750k? All sites need to clamp down on this mega it's not like the 6max ring games are dry enough without bots already. This is why I stick to HUNL and MTTs only I think you encounter barely any bots compared to SH and FR obviously because less natural human instinct is required in these games. Single table SNGs I tend to think will become bottish as well.

Descriptions like these would be gold. TY ^ I only mostly play HUNL and MTT but would like to leave/inform other fellow grinders of suss action too.

Sorry forgot to ask: please provide your interpretation of bot-like stats? Like full HEM analysis?

I hear there are chess bots that can beat grandmasters. So I'll just make some weird moves that they've never seen before and beat the computer easily. He's a computer, he won't be able to adjust. Just a dumb machine.

it seems like a lot of the bots that were on ipoker have now disappeared, i'm just wondering if this has happened on party too?

Can we drop this conversation yet? If you choose to believe they can crush you then that is fine... The point of this thread is to try and raise awareness and find solutions or motivate the sites to. If you say you can't beat a bot I won't argue with you. Lets move on to more productiveness.

Well said YouSureSir! the whole point here is to make the sites more proactive in detecting these bot users and prevent them from polluting the tables. beating a bot - imho its not impossible. the idea here is to ensure the sites upgrade their security to be a few steps ahead of the strides the programs have achieved by means of integrating artificial intelligence with stats readily available on www to form a network that can move and attempt to match a human. if left unattended, it can one day improvise and improve to be a force that will be difficult to combat. PARTY - plz do something which makes us feel that u have a security team capable of combating this menace!

Very high Cbet%, high steal%, low EP raise%, high 3bet% from sb and bb. I understand that a lot of players play that way, but the weird timing was the biggest piece of evidence

Complete Hogwash. The people who will be hurt first are the people you want playing at the sites. Only a small percentage of players(-10%) will always win the money no matter how much information is out there. I wont explain too you why that is.... you should know why this is true.
In the High stakes limit forum there is currently a thread on how to keep a high stakes fish happy so he wont quit the game because that ONE player is the source of primary income for several high limit players, and your'e saying there is nothing to worry about? Get a clue. I realize nl is much stronger than limit but if the source of primary income is eliminated or hurt substantially by bots its a major major problem.

errr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Bl...Garry_Kasparov

No clue why you're targeting my post statictheory. At no point did I say that bots were not a major problem. It sounds like you're just mad or something.

The idea that a brain is more powerful than a bot/computer is so misguided. Watch Moneyball, talk to traders at the Chicago Board of Trade who try to earn a living trading against complex algorithms, read about Deep Blue/Chess etc.

not mad, at all. No, its a problem, but it will all be solved if we just study our poker right.. Do you even know what you wrote or now that someone has a problem with it youre going to start dancing . just move on.

Did you even read what I wrote? I acknowledge that bots will make games much worse overtime, and I acknowledge the fact that bots will improve to the point that they will be better than any human.

I played in bot infested games throughout much of 2011 and still had a great year. My only major point in that post was that for the top regs who treat their game seriously, there is still lots of money to be made.

If you don't agree with that point, that's fine. But your attitude--it's problem.

It seems these bots have returned to low-mid stakes NL on PartyPoker. Lots of new nicknames from Spain and the UK with ugly LAG-style strategies that no one play except them.

It's sad, but it looks like Party does not care and all efforts you guys made were in vain.

If anyone is still interested and have a will to fight against these ****ing bots - i can send PM with new nicknames i found (but only to reputable members).

they made a comeback at 5/10, too and i see 2 of them frequently sitting 2k and 5k

are these shortstackers, you are talking about, green dragon?
ppl say there is a spanish shortstacking "school" so its not that surprising that most of theses scumbags are from spain.