How should we combat min donk bet in multiway pot? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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How should we combat min donk bet in multiway pot?

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02-16-2011 , 02:55 AM

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Full Tilt - $0.10 NL RUSH (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $4.00
Hero (CO): $11.05
BTN: $12.06
SB: $32.64
BB: $24.52
UTG: $10.00

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95, 3 players) 4

BB bets $0.10, fold, BTN calls $0.10

Turn: ($1.15, 2 players) 6

BB checks, BTN bets $0.70, BB calls $0.70

River: ($2.55, 2 players) A

BB checks, BTN checks

Both villains are complete unknowns. That said, how in the world should we play these spots, especially when it is a multiway pot and there is a player to act behind me?

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02-16-2011 , 02:58 AM

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

treat it like a check

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02-16-2011 , 01:45 PM

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by ionutd

treat it like a check

Why? Microstakes villains frequently do sh*t like this with tp+, especially a scared tp.

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02-16-2011 , 01:48 PM

kessler

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 944

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcole

Why? Microstakes villains frequently do sh*t like this with tp+, especially a scared tp.

It's usually a draw they kinda want to protect and they fold a lot when you raise them proper

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02-16-2011 , 01:50 PM

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

^then fold to a min-bet weee

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02-19-2011 , 07:17 PM

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by kessler

It's usually a draw they kinda want to protect and they fold a lot when you raise them proper

There is no such thing as protecting a draw, unless it is a draw that has show down value like a pair+draw. I do agree that they will often have draws in these spots, but I disagree with you that they will be folding draws (even if they are "supposed" to). Plus, I see many villains do this with a pair+, many of which are not folding either.

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02-19-2011 , 07:27 PM

hang

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,579

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcole

at least 90% of donkbets i see go one of two ways:

i raise it on the flop, they fold
i raise it on the flop, they call, and c/f turn

youre giving way too much respect for donkbets against an unknown

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02-19-2011 , 07:34 PM

elpsnot

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 559

call we beat his semi-bluff range and we have equity vs. his Tx and whatever else he is v-betting here. and he gives you like 10-1 pot odds,

v-bet this river by the way.Hes prob gonna continue if hes not afraid of the Ace.

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02-19-2011 , 07:34 PM

FTSITTTD

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by hang

at least 90% of donkbets i see go one of two ways:

i raise it on the flop, they fold
i raise it on the flop, they call, and c/f the turn

This really, its the same for me. I usually raise big OTF get called a ton and then take it down OTT when they miss. If they have some middle pair or something equally weak they usually c/c down. Value bet them when you have a hand and it and play a cheap pot when you dont.

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02-19-2011 , 09:08 PM

#10

fearofaces

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,362

you guys serious? once i he donk/calls i am done with the hand unless i actually have it obvously

anyone else vouch for firing turn in these spots, on what board textures/turn cards

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02-19-2011 , 11:10 PM

#11

kessler

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 944

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcole

What I mean is that they think their tiny donkbet is intimidating so it acts as a check, they get to see a free card more or less. It's the move of a station who doesn't even have the cojones to be a station. It really depends on the villain but there is generally a lot of value in raising tiny donkbets

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02-20-2011 , 12:21 AM

#12

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by hang

Perhaps, I guess it is worth it to put more raises in in these spots just to test this theory. Maybe its just bad variance or a small sample, but villains seem to call my raises (or 3bet) at least 65% of the time. This is especially true when they donked into more than one player, as in this hand.

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02-20-2011 , 12:23 AM

#13

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by elpsnot

call we beat his semi-bluff range and we have equity vs. his Tx and whatever else he is v-betting here. and he gives you like 10-1 pot odds.

True, good pot odds but I have another player behind me. Its seems either a raise or fold is best, and no flat calls.

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v-bet this river by the way.Hes prob gonna continue if hes not afraid of the Ace.

I folded flop.

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02-20-2011 , 12:25 AM

#14

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTSITTTD

Why do you agree with the other reply since you acknowledge that villains do in fact usually call flop raise and c/c down enough to make raising flop questionable?

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02-20-2011 , 12:28 AM

#15

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearofaces

you guys serious? once i he donk/calls i am done with the hand unless i actually have it obvously

anyone else vouch for firing turn in these spots, on what board textures/turn cards

I seems bad to raise flop only to give up on turn, so I think either just folding to the donk bet or raising with the intention of firing at least 2 barrels is best. As for what turn cards to barrel, it is just a bad barreling type of board imo, because so many cards will improve his hand or give him more equity. Therefore, it seems the only real good cards to bet turn with would be A, K, Q, J. All the other cards either improve his hand or give him more equity, or dont change the board texture enough to get him to fold hands that he called flop raise with.

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02-20-2011 , 12:30 AM

#16

dcole

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by kessler

Oh, you mean a blocking bet then? Gotcha. Ya, I do agree that these small donk bets are often with draws (or weak made hands), but especially when they are leading into more than one player, they just dont fold often enough to a flop raise. That means that if we do raise, we need to be prepared to fire 2nd (and maybe 3rd) barrels. And this board blows for barreling.

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02-20-2011 , 01:24 AM

#17

DaKorsh

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 182

I'll raise any flop I would have cbet. I'll call flop and turn minbets on boards I wouldn't have cbet if I have decent equity. In this hand, you've got two overs and you could already have the best hand. Even without implied odds, your immediate pot odds demand at least a call.

I see them go minbet minbet check and minbet minbet 2xminbet with air or BP and if they make a real bet on the river and you haven't improved you can just fold. I'm not too afraid of the button since his range is wide and you're only risking 1 BB to call. Obviously you fold to a raise.

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