Ok so I have begun multi tabling full ring .01/.02. Problem I'm having is that I'm playing a 30/17/3 game. I always play position, but I guess I'm playing too many hands. It's just hard to fold KQo in the hijack when you see what hands these people play. Apparently there are like 30 aces in the deck because every time an ace hits the flop someone has it, even if you're HU. You absolutely cannot cbet an ace high flop if you have < AQ.

Hands im raising in unraised nonlimped pots:

66+, KQs+ from EP.
44+, J10s+ from MP
67s++ from LP.
I 3bet TT+, AK+ if no one has called unless villain is like 10/3 over 50 hands.
Fold to 4bet with < QQ+

If the pot has 2+ limpers I limp all of the above except AK+ and JJ+

I dont get in too many multiway raised pots so im not worried about that right now.

Is this range simply too wide? Do I need to just paste a starting hands chart next to my screen that includes only playing TT+ in unraised pot, and AK+ in raised pots?

My main issue is running into those ****ing ace rags. Every time I raise with less than an ace it seems an ace magically falls from the sky on the flop. I've never seen so many aces hit a flop before. Of course when I'm raising AK im having to cbet rainbow 359 and expect to get called with god knows what. But thats another story.

I'm playing at about 29/14 at 25NL, but I think anyone is going to tell you that you have to tighten way up on loose tables with calling stations, etc., which is pretty much how I picture the penny stakes. A4 > KQ all in pre-flop, and if it's no-fold-em-hold-em then those extra betting rounds are just decorative.

... are you a winning player?

I don't think multitabling NL2 is a good idea. Make sure your fundamentals are sound and you're beating at least NL25 comfortably on 1-3 tables.

Just play pairs, AK-AJ and fold everything else. Don't defend and steal blinds. This will fix your problem of playing too many hands. You don't need more hands to be profitable at this level.

Posting a hand chart is a good idea.

Not in front of my DB right now, but I'm running at about 3.5ptbb/100 since I moved down to 25NL a month ago. Not a huge sample size, but I feel pretty confident that I could keep it up indefinitely until the game changes.

OK, I know -- graph or it didn't happen. I'm actually running better than I thought.





But this took a lot of work to get a winning LAG approach working even at these stakes. My advice to OP is to try and play tighter for where he is at. If the other players don't get him, the rake will.

It might sound like a level but Fold more hands.

I give some insight to 2NL in my tour de micro thread.

Conan's Advice is good. He plays an adaptable game ranging from very loose to very tight and wins at both. You will not go far wrong following his advice.

King Spew made an excellent point a while back that it is harder to multi-table playing LAG than TAG. If your goal is to accumulate a BR to move up, tightening up will help. One quick way to do it with your stats is to fold any hand you aren't willing to raise. That would get you down to a manageable VPIP of 17 alone.

Beyond that, winning poker at 2nl is to never bluff, continually value bet hard and never trap. You will almost always get paid off.

Thanks for the tip o the hat, venice.

FWIW, when I multitable 25NL (8-10 tables), I think 11/9/4 is optimal. I would think the same would be true for the 2NL tables.

Of course I try to RARELY play out of position even when I am one tabling. I would think playing EP on the 2NL tables would be a landmine field just waiting to explode.

yrmv....your results may vary.

This is pretty impressive. I assume you're VPIP is high because you limp behind a lot in positon and the play solid position poker.

Interesting thread, linking for truth!

Depending on the limpers that's a part of it -- I'm happy to see cheap flops against players who are even looser than I am when the table dynamics are right and they have deep stacks. But just generally, even if I'm raised behind by a TAG, my PF calling range is wider than my raising range as that keeps the balance of information in my favor, and the folded out limpers' dead money makes the pot odds right for even very speculative hands HU. Since LP PRFs are usually polarizing their range, that gives me an edge on the small ball game. My long ball game gets there because my flop check/raises get no respect because of my loose image, and I've been lucky enough to get opponents who just panic and want to play for stacks instead of panicking and folding.

A little help goes a long way. Thanks for the advice guys, seems to be paying off already.



Any advice on how to tweak these values to further maximize my play? Currently I think my biggest soft spot is playing middle position with marginal hands. Point is, I dont. A9s unraised pot, QJs in raised pot. Should I be playing these? Right now I just pitch em to avoid difficult decisions.

Looks like you are running good!

For the marginal hands, you are probably just fine in doing what you are doing.

Some pooh-bah once wrote a good post about marginal situations, pointing out that we spend a lot of time wrestling with questions where in the long term the EV almost cancels out. You can play those hands if you can maximize your profit when you hit, and get away cheap when you can reasonably believe you are dominated. But even then, if you lose 3BB 9/10 times you play A9s, and win 27BB the other time, it doesn't end up making a difference to your bottom line.

In my DB as per above, I'm playing A9s 88% percent of the time, winning 0.69 of a BB on average each time.

QJs I'm playing 97% of the time and losing one quarter of a BB each time.

Of course, even over 10K hands, there can be a lot of skewing there (I'm winning with JJ and 99, but losing with 10 10), and this isn't taking into account position. K3s is my fifth most profitable hand purely by accident I'm sure.

I could never ever play QJ but I would just hate to be in a situation where I bluff and get looked up because my opponent knows I never play QJ. Probably not a realistic concern!

I've been working on playing more like this too, and I like it.

Explain this a little more. It sort of sounds like you're l/c TAG raises when OOP, but I think I'm misreading it.

Yes, I am loose calling tag raises OOP. Not nit raises, and only once in a while. Especially if I limp behind a few callers, TAG raises, limpers fold. Maybe I luckbox and get berated. Maybe I miss and lose ~4BBs. Maybe I hit and win a stack. Maybe I run a good bluff. It's basically a good gamble, imo, because they are turning their hands face up. Knowing is half the battle, amirite?

Oh, the berations!

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (MP1): $27.90
MP2: $23.05
CO: $30.25
BTN: $4.90
SB: $25.10
BB: $4.55
UTG: $25.85
UTG+1: $4.65
UTG+2: $4.65

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP1 with 8 5
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, CO raises to $3, 3 folds, Hero calls $2.25

Flop: ($6.35) 8 3 K (2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, CO raises to $6, Hero calls $3.75

Turn: ($18.35) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, CO folds

Final Pot: $18.35
Hero shows 8 5 (two pair, Eights and Fives)
Hero wins $17.45
(Rake: $0.90)


Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $40.45
MP2: $8.05
CO: $22.45
BTN: $35.15
SB: $4.95
BB: $19.35
UTG: $15.60
Hero (UTG+1): $25.20
UTG+2: $9.50

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG+1 with 3 5
1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, CO calls $0.25, BTN raises to $1.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.10) 4 2 A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.25, Hero raises to $5, BTN raises to $31.75, Hero calls $18.45 all in

Turn: ($51.00) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($51.00) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $51.00
BTN mucks K A
Hero shows 3 5 (a flush, Ace high)
Hero wins $48.50
(Rake: $2.50)

wow.

I am lucky, then I strike. It's in the ****ing documentation people!

This is usually what I do in order to tighten up.

@javi..

I'm playing NL10 currently and tightened up a lot since few days. well i can say it helped a lot. I raised 56s+ also from EP...but Tracker says me that i didn't win a lot with that.. well i'm only playing them now from late without any limpers.

Only advice a newbie like me can give is to play really tight. The most guys there are so weak, they will pay you off anyway!

Well i played 5Max before...but not running good and some tilt brought me down, no trying to rebuild with Fullring.. here my stats for NL10..



Well i play about 16/7 now ..but i works until now..! So i can say tight is right down there..no special things..no special moves..



What's that sweet minraise on flop..would make it more to 6 and more..probably 8.

I do what u do conan - and it results in my AF never budging much above 2.5

Well it's been exactly one week since I made this topic, figured I would just throw in a little self-congratulatory update as a result to the changes recommended by the fine folks of 2p2.

From what I've read, I shouldnt consider this sustainable. But man it sure would be nice to move up a couple of stakes in the next month. You can practically live off NL50.

Nice graph, glad we could help. But watch out for 50NL. She's a maneater

At 2NL you really want to be playing every single pocket pair especially since its so deep and the players are so bad. You can easily call a 3bet (cuz we all now fish like to min 3bet AA) with massive implied odds and stack them 100% of the time if we hit a set.

I don't really know why you would raise 66 from EP but not 22., or raise 44 from mp but again not 22. i'd prefer 22 than JTs from MP but maybe thats just me.

You can sustain a winrate north of 50 BB/100 (25 ptbb/100) at 2NL, and you can do it playing a ton of different styles. I played a 40/18 style most aptly called 'see lots of flops, flop nuts and jam' and beat 2NL at 65 BB/100.

I beat $2nl over about 600k hands for about 12pt but i really suck and played pretty nitty, playing less tables and looser should yield better results.