Villain is 20/14/3.3 regular
Kind of so-so tag. Not horrible though.


$400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
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CO: $211.25
BTN: $508.50
SB: $886.00
Hero (BB): $723.20

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with K J
1 fold, BTN raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero calls $10

Flop: ($30.00) 4 4 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $26.00, Hero calls $26

Thoughts on Flop:
We have best hand a bunch. We can float oop also. Maybe we can c/c flop and check turn.

If he bets turn when we miss, we can c/r repping a 4, or else call if we hit new tp.

If he checks behind on missed turn though, I am a bit lost on the river. I'm not sure if he is good enough to fold tp if he hits it to a river c/r. Otherwise that would be the nuts line.

Turn: ($82.00) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $68.00, Hero calls $68

River: ($218.00) K (2 players)
Hero ???



1. If he checks behind a turn that we dont hit tp with, how do we deal with the river? I think someone might be able to analyse this spot well and I would really appreciate thoughts on it.

2. Do we like a river c/c here? c/r? If c/r, how much to and what if he shoves?

I can't decide if I like the flop call or not, it makes life so difficult but I like calling pre with this hand some of the time so I think you do have to float on some boards and this is a pretty good one to do it. I'd definately call the flop with any Ace.
The good thing about the flop call is that you look like a medium pair, and any aggro villain might go crazy on a J or K turn/river, trying to get you to fold it.

As played I c/shove river you wont be able to fold to a shove after your raise anyway and if he's playing bad maybe he'll call with AK/KQ and there's really not a lot that beats you.

If he checks behind the turn and the board is different (ie you haven't hit it ) then I think you can only bet the river with boards that would make sense for you apparant 55-99 type hand. So if there's an overcard or two and you bet the river, then you really arent repping much anymore.

Start by checking. It's a good bluff card for him. I'm not sure if I want to c/shove or c/c. It kind of depends on what else you'd ever c/shove (or at least what he thinks you may c/shove, including bluffs) - and so will he call with Kx, will he call with Jx/QQ?

I don't like the flop-call. Villain bets pretty big and you don't have **** (might be drawing dead, etc). You're taking the "fight for every pot"-mentality a bit too far imo.

As played I pbb c/c, unless you know that villain stacks off light. Definately start by checking, taking this line is also good for balancing when you do have 55-99 (discourages villain to tripple barrle you when you can't call 3 streets)

yeah I'd be good to know his button opening range some nits open a lot of hands on the button in which case I like the flop call better

flop cr > flop cc

i really don't think I would like the turn c/r on a blank (a large % of the time) and as this was pretty integeral to your flop plan I disagree with flop call. However, it was a very good point someone made about you holding cards villain would bluff at to get you off your percieved midpair type hand - it is just too rare that you hit a J or K imo.

On the river i dont see anything else we can do except check it to him. We are much more likely to get some action from the air part of his range.

Hmm i think i would go for a c/c here. Im not really sure if that guy will ever pay off a cr with worse. If we c/c two streets and then comes in with a crai on the river it really looks super strong. And i think most decent so-so tag-guys will fold a lot in that spot.

OOP float here is silly, I like it better when you can donk a wide range of cards and put the villian under pressure (particularly when you gain outs from those cards). This board is a little dry for that and he'll most likely keep you honest.

Somebody needs to fill me in on why a river check raise is good. The guy is a 20/14 that is supposedly decent. He's not going to pay off with worse.

I personally am in the lead river camp so that he doesn't check behind. He might think we are a FOS or he might have gotten there with a King and I doubt he folds it.

This guy, from the description, might not even be on the level of repping the king and will check behind with a lot of stuff that could call us.

I think what Bobbylight is saying has merits for sure!

I would like to make a river bet here but depending on the villan im not sure what I'd bet.

Agressive villan I would lead for 30-45% of pot and hope to induce a raise.The player in this hand would probally not make a move on this river idk?

Therefore I really like a psb,that way are line looks fos imo

flop is very very meh but as played this is a gin river and u should be c/c 100% b/c he will be bluffing here 100% if he is decent/good

edit: leading out here is criminal

What about river c-r? We are repping such a narrow range (88/45s/A4s) and made hands like 77 turned into a bluff, and there's not many bettter hands. I think against a decent player c-r is much-much better than c-c, but maybe against so-so tag its not the case.
Also dont like the flop float.

yeah i do agree with u - i think c/r is better than c/c. And c/r becomes more and more profitable the more competent villain is.

Also, obv the more spewtastic our image is the more it becomes a c/r. in fact if we have done anything remotely crazy prior to this hand i would be turboshoving

I'm all for c/r since that K is innocent vs the range of hands he can put us on besides a really poorly played AK. I agree that the float is questionable. I don't agree that villain wouldn't call us with worse. If he has QQ/KA/KQ here, he might stack out of curiosity b/c our line looks so bluffy.

Thanks alot fot a lot of great answers.



Do you think it's not good to have a turn plan of:
- c/c if we hit J/K
- c/r if we miss repping trips?

Dont you think c/c flop and c/r turn appears as a pretty obvious play for trips on dry flop to a tag?

Also, how does my flop c/c (and rest of the hand) change if we have AJs/ATs

Maybe if it were trip tens or something, but he will never believe you have a 4

if he's good and he views you as good he should be expecting you to c/r flop with trips b/c it looks so FOS

Leading river is lol bad. Flop play is pretty bad too. c/r a blank turn is also fairly bad since you rep exactly a 4 and frankly it's hard to get trips (and your hand will look like a middle pair that realizes it's no good).

fgators i'm pretty sure you would not only say that c/r KJ for value here sucks but that c/r 66 as a bluff sucks, too.

i'm in the camp that c/c flop is probably bad. the argument that your hand might be good typically would support anything but a c/c since the type to cbet this board with a wide range of air will typically be following on the turn a ton. you mitigate this by having a turn checkraise plan, but the fact that you may be ahead is essentially irrelevant.

that said, this is an interesting spot and against the many opponents who make mistakes in their cbetting and turn decisions here. c/c with plans to lead many rivers when turn is checked through and so on is an interesting play i don't really use in my game against people who one-and-done here too wide.

If I continue past the flop it's either by c/r ing or leading a ton of turns but as has been said earlier this is kinda not the best board to take this line on.

How can you possibly say "lead river is lol bad."

Please.

What does he do with AJ, QQ,QJ,etc.?

He probably checks behind but could definitely call a bet.

He likely doesn't check behind with AK but who knows...he definitely doesn't fold it.

Why not bet $115-135 and fold if he raises, since this type of playe won't raise us with worse.

terp,

I'd rather check raise with 66 here than KJ I think.

I don't think I check raise the river with much of anything on this type of hand since it played out so "wacky" and weird and given that we get looked up a lot lighter in these type of situations.

If he's even somewhat decent he bets Jx+ for value. He also bets a LOT of bluffs on that river. That's why river lead is lol bad.

He also shows down with a lot of hands that he may look us up.

This guy is labeled a "so so tag" not a high winning guy who is capable of good three barrels.