Fundamentally sound 5 bet rip with KJs? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Fundamentally sound 5 bet rip with KJs?

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09-06-2018 , 07:41 PM

d5t6y7

journeyman

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 236

I had a sample of about 180 hands and his fold to 3 bet was 14% and his 4 bet ratio was 7. I know it's a small sample, but it provided an indication to me that this guy was going to 4 bet too light and try to muscle me off the pot. Consequently, I elected to 5 bet ship the blockers and wanted some input on whether this was a courageous play, or fundamentally unsound.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37936524

Hero (BTN): $157.92 (315.8 bb)
SB: $27.60 (55.2 bb)
BB: $68.66 (137.3 bb)
UTG: $56.61 (113.2 bb)
MP: $92.19 (184.4 bb)
CO: $57.44 (114.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with K

UTG raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, 2 folds, UTG raises to $9, Hero raises to $157.92 and is all-in

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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09-06-2018 , 08:39 PM

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,889

I don't even think the 3-bet is right. This seems like a good flat call spot vs UTG. I'd much rather 3-bet something like A5s or KJo.

I'd be a little worried doing this vs his small 4-bet sizing. If he was really trying to muscle you off the pot wouldn't he make it like $12?

Seems like you have a profitable flat of the $5.5 more as played.

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09-06-2018 , 08:39 PM

DooDooPoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,693

Good idea but no it’s not fundamentally sound. AQs,AJs,ATs all make better 5 bets. If we are wrong an run into KK at least have decent equity. Running KJs into AA or KK is just punting stacks.

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09-06-2018 , 08:40 PM

DooDooPoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImAllInNow

I don't even think the 3-bet is right. This seems like a good flat call spot vs UTG.

I'd be a little worried doing this vs his small 4-bet sizing. If he was really trying to muscle you off the pot wouldn't he make it like $12?

Seems like you have a profitable flat of the $6.5 more as played.

3bet is more profitable then flat but obviously both are fine

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09-06-2018 , 09:09 PM

Havick

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 395

KJs isn't always in my 3! Range, but I don't hate it. 5! Jam here is spew imo, because Villain needs to fold here over 20% of the time just to break even against a 7% range (assuming villain only 4! Here with the top of his range). So unless villain folds out to a 5! Jam a high percentage of the time, it isn't a good move. Not to mention that it's only a slight edge if villain over folds.

Better spots, etc...

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09-06-2018 , 09:16 PM

bailashtoreth

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2,326

With such a low fold to 3bet, you should be 3 betting bigger and with more value hands, not more bluffs.

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09-07-2018 , 12:21 AM

krcmdc

grinder

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 541

What is a "4 bet ratio"?

For whatever it might be worth, anytime I 5bet bluff, it's always with suited wheel aces. I've never needed to go wider than that, but if I ever did feel it necessary to go wider, and assuming I don't have time to do the math, ...then this hand seems a reasonable choice to me. But I need a much bigger sample to consider this, and even when I have the sample, I almost certainly wouldn't start down this road for the first time when I'm facing villains UTG ranges.

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09-07-2018 , 06:11 AM

TheGodson

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3,217

I don't think this is good since you've never seen your opponent fold after 4-betting. He could be 4-betting light, but still stacking off.

If it is a good spot, in the long run your opponent is going to adapt and it will also be hard to not overbluff if you don't select predefined 5-bet bluffing candidates. This can prevent you from becoming too crazy. 5-bet bluff with those candidates if the situation is right. If not, then you can comfortably fold. KJs has good blockers, but suited aces are even better. They also have a lot more equity versus premium hands.

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09-07-2018 , 09:09 PM

d5t6y7

journeyman

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 236

I don't 5 bet KJs as a default vs LJ 4 bet. Perhaps I over adjusted. In this exact spot I'd prefer the suited Ax hands, but I thought in game that KJs would be a profitable rip.

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09-07-2018 , 11:18 PM

#10

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

There are some vils who 4-bet light. Then there are some vils who 4-bet REALLY light (K8o for example). Against these vils your shove is profitable, however I’d still only do this in btn vs blinds scenario, not vs utg.

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