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Flop with TPTK facing shove Flop with TPTK facing shove

02-22-2012 , 02:55 PM
Only played about 100 hands w/ villain (15/10)
I'm playing about 22/17
I want to know if this play is standard and if this would be +EV.
Would c/c the whole way be justifiable?

Merge - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $11.32
BTN: $33.89
SB: $25.32
Hero (BB): $25.69
UTG: $31.69

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has A K

UTG calls $0.25, CO raises to $0.81, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.78, UTG calls $2.53, fold

Flop: ($6.47, 2 players) 9 3 K
Hero bets $4.31, UTG raises to $8.62, Hero raises to $22.91 and is all-in, UTG calls $14.29

Turn: ($52.29, 2 players) 6

River: ($52.29, 2 players) Q

Spoiler:
Hero shows A K (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 49%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
UTG shows 3 3 (Three of a Kind, Threes) (Pre 51%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
UTG wins $50.29

I don't mind being called a spewtard just tell me how else to approach the situation.
Any insights are appreciated. Thanks
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 03:08 PM
Why are you trying to shove TPTK against a 15/10 (assuming that was a value shove and not a bluff)? This is suicide.

The best you can hope for is that he has a flush draw. And even then, you are flipping.

Just flat his flop raise.

As a generally applicable rule, nits do not go broke with less than TPTK, if he seems he is trying to
push all his chips in the middle, it means he has better than that.

Last edited by lowanizer; 02-22-2012 at 03:14 PM.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 03:18 PM
Does villain bet his draws aggressively? Any reads on post flop aggression? Without reads, I am seriously tempted to fold to the flop raise. At most, it is a call and wait to see what happens on the turn. If a third spade appears, you can fold and you have saved yourself some money. Also, why bet so much on the flop? Unless villain is a calling station, you want to keep the pot small with top pair. I would just be betting about half the size of the pot on the flop. If I get called, I am checking the turn.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 05:36 PM
I didn't want to flat and face a shove on the turn, doubt it would have gone check check. I put more suited broadway cards in his range considering the action pre and his position and I sure didn't put him on 33, which is something I will consider in the future. This means I would get 57% equity against AK, KQ, 99, AQs, AJs (50% incl. 33) There wasn't enough of a read for how aggressive he would play post flop.
So flat the flop and fold to turn shove?
I'm thinking maybe c/call flop, psb/f turn? Keeping the pot small with a hand near but not at the top of my range.
Is 2/3 pot bet on the flop too much on this board because villain is folding so many hands that are behind? I can see how a 1/2 pot bet might be better.
If the flop was rainbow, do you snapfold to the raise?
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 05:51 PM
Cb/ call or fold are close IMO.


Villians L/C range consitst of: PP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SC and has almost no Kx in his range (KQ? Doubt it).

Problem is, I really dont like being bluffed by say 55 OTF or his occasional flush draw. But, even though his value range (99, 33) is very narrow indeed... Im not exactly willing to give his flop min raise credit for a bluff - hes a nit!
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 06:02 PM
SPR is 3.5:1 on the flop. That's just about perfect for a TPTK hand. Sure, our opponent could hold a better hand but the risk is low. If the SPR was higher (say 7-10 or more) this is probably an easy fold. The risk is too high. With this low SPR, we can be comfortable committing to the hand and so putting all our chips in the middle is a much easier decision, and we'll have the best hand here most of the time anyway. Villain flopping a set doesn't happen often.

i.e. You played it fine. Sometimes you lose even when you play it right.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 06:23 PM
With the limper and his small iso I would 3 bet to 3.20
Postflop is super std.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 06:48 PM
standard

take notes that this nit fish limp/calls any pair and minraises flop with sets in 3 bet pots
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:08 PM
Folding to a min raise just seems too nitty. This is a flop that he's not going to hit hard very often.
If I raised larger pre, I guess it would be an easier decision concerning SPR.
What does L/C mean? I agree that there are many more PP in his range, but wouldn't that make it worse of a decision for me to cbet?
How does a 3b minraise sound? raise to $13 and folding to a shove?
That would almost guarantee that he has a set and keeps me from putting in the rest of my stack since I would be a 50:1 underdog to a set. If he has a pair or draw neither of us bet the rest of the way and I hold the best hand with less risk.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbook
I agree that there are many more PP in his range, but wouldn't that make it worse of a decision for me to cbet?
How does a 3b minraise sound? raise to $13 and folding to a shove?
That would almost guarantee that he has a set and keeps me from putting in the rest of my stack since I would be a 50:1 underdog to a set. If he has a pair or draw neither of us bet the rest of the way and I hold the best hand with less risk.
please forget that you ever typed this and completely wipe this thinking out of your brain... if you do any of the things you mentioned in this post you will become a MASSIVE loser in the games you play... im talking like whale territory loser
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:18 PM
If you 3 bet to $13 you've put over 60% of your stack in. You can't fold TPTK then.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:31 PM
Thought I'd try and explain why all of this is so bad to help you out a bit because this is pretty flawed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbook
Folding to a min raise just seems too nitty. This is a flop that he's not going to hit hard very often.
If I raised larger pre, I guess it would be an easier decision concerning SPR.
What does L/C mean? I agree that there are many more PP in his range, but wouldn't that make it worse of a decision for me to cbet?

If he had more pps in his range that isn't really a reason not to cbet because we still have to protect from draws and we get easy value from worse kx that way, sets will always be a small part of villain's range

How does a 3b minraise sound? raise to $13 and folding to a shove?

If we 3bet the flop we are committed to the pot because we will be getting such good odds to call off, also it its extremely likely that villain will not have a r/fing range. Basically if villain raises a fd in the first place he's going to shove and almost certainly the same with worse kx (obviously he shouldn't raise kx in the first place really but people are bad)
That would almost guarantee that he has a set and keeps me from putting in the rest of my stack since I would be a 50:1 underdog to a set. If he has a pair or draw neither of us bet the rest of the way and I hold the best hand with less risk.
We can get value from his draws, we are ahead of his draws, yes it may be higher variance but thats the game, and as said before he won't flat them anyway so the whole argument is invalid imo
Actual hand is standard
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:57 PM
Thanks for the explanation, I read your post in Teddy KGB's voice. This'll help plug my leaks I'm sure.
Flop with TPTK facing shove Quote

      
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