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flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede?

06-30-2010 , 01:28 PM
Incidentally, how does a HUD preclude you from playing fundamentally sound poker?
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
Incidentally, how does a HUD preclude you from playing fundamentally sound poker?
The way I read this indicates playing some sort of equilibrium strategy which concentrates on being unexploitable, rather than actively exploiting the opponents' mistakes. That's not a bad way to start. However I doubt that 3betting Axo OOP is part of such a strategy.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cangurino
My line would probably be something like: cbet flop, c/f turn, c/c river.
I like this line, as well as 3bet to 2.75 preflop given that BTN opener has a wide range and has the capability to fold. I would be hesitant to c/c river if I didn't think the player was capable of making thin value bets with a pair under AA though.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OoLethaLoO
Well I think we have learned why 3betting IP>>>>>3betting OOP. The light 3bet with A5o is not awful in itself, the problem is that you have absolutely no info on villain and you are OOP. 3betting light OOP with no info is just going to put you in bad spots like this a lot. Flop Cbet is fine, turn is close but b/f isn't terrible, but c/f river. Villain isn't going to float twice with nothing then bluff riv in a 3bet pot. If he has some worse pair he will prob fold riv and snap check behind when you check.
he has never answered if it was for value or as a bluff. If it was a "light -3bet" and he change his mind once he hit TPNK, then that is one discussion.

If it was for value, then that is another discussion.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD
he has never answered if it was for value or as a bluff. If it was a "light -3bet" and he change his mind once he hit TPNK, then that is one discussion.

If it was for value, then that is another discussion.
Can be both, can't it? I frequently squeeze with ragged aces because it probably isn't the best hand, but has a blocker and can flop top pair. I think I've seen it referred to as pre-flop semibluffing.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
Incidentally, how does a HUD preclude you from playing fundamentally sound poker?
When i use my HUD i find myself relying on the stats for info more than the action in the hand. I turned it off so that i could get better at piecing together info based on my opponents lines and then later on use my HUD as a supplement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD
he has never answered if it was for value or as a bluff. If it was a "light -3bet" and he change his mind once he hit TPNK, then that is one discussion.

If it was for value, then that is another discussion.
I just thought against a 3bb steal that i could re-steal it enough to make it a +ev play and i at least had a marginal hand for those times that he does call. I guess it was a semi-bluff in the sense that i wanted to take it down right there but i also have a decent chance of having the best hand on the flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OoLethaLoO
Well I think we have learned why 3betting IP>>>>>3betting OOP. The light 3bet with A5o is not awful in itself, the problem is that you have absolutely no info on villain and you are OOP. 3betting light OOP with no info is just going to put you in bad spots like this a lot. Flop Cbet is fine, turn is close but b/f isn't terrible, but c/f river. Villain isn't going to float twice with nothing then bluff riv in a 3bet pot. If he has some worse pair he will prob fold riv and snap check behind when you check.
I figured he probably had a flush/straight draw because wouldn't he raise me if he had an ace on that board? He definitely wouldn't float me 2 streets with air and then bluff, but bluffing after a missed draw is a possibility, right?
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 05:11 PM
re-stealing with A5o is fine, although I prefer you have reads before you do it, so you know how wide his stealing range is and what his continuation range is.

Now once he hits, we want to figure out what he is calling our bet with on the flop. Is he a habitual floater? Can we make his range wider by c/c? Is he going to be stubborn with JJ?
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Its Sick
He definitely wouldn't float me 2 streets with air and then bluff, but bluffing after a missed draw is a possibility, right?
And why exactly is it that you dont want him to bluff with a busted draw?
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
That being said, to only lose 40bb on a 3bet pot like this isn't the worst outcome in the world.
Aye, I think you were lucky you ran into a villain that doesn't like money.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD
re-stealing with A5o is fine, although I prefer you have reads before you do it, so you know how wide his stealing range is and what his continuation range is.

Now once he hits, we want to figure out what he is calling our bet with on the flop. Is he a habitual floater? Can we make his range wider by c/c? Is he going to be stubborn with JJ?
I never understood why making someone's range wider would be a good thing. Shouldn't we always be geared towards making their range shorter so as to have a better grasp on where we stand and how to proceed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenjupp
And why exactly is it that you dont want him to bluff with a busted draw?
because i would rather bet $3 and get a showdown/have him fold/fold to a raise rather than checking and most likely folding to his bluff.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 06:36 PM
Keep their range wider and they are more likely to pay off with a worse hand

Keep their range narrower and you are more likely to pay off with a worse hand
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote
06-30-2010 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Its Sick
I never understood why making someone's range wider would be a good thing. Shouldn't we always be geared towards making their range shorter so as to have a better grasp on where we stand and how to proceed?


because i would rather bet $3 and get a showdown/have him fold/fold to a raise rather than checking and most likely folding to his bluff.
read *Splits* COTW on continuation range. I think we are talking about ranges differently.
flop aces but am outkicked; how best to procede? Quote

      
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