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Fixing My Leaks-50NL-Checking Top Set Fixing My Leaks-50NL-Checking Top Set

03-28-2012 , 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleffo19
i kinda have a feeling you posted this hand to prove a point; namely that ppl who post strat don't logically come to conclusions and rather spout $hit and old mantras that make little sense in the context of the hand (note - i agree 100% with this if i am indeed correct).
Nah I legit think it's an interesting spot and just wish people would think about it more rather than blindly be like "nonononono you have a hand betbetbet because I said so". I'm quite open to the fact that this could be a completely awful check, but I want people to explain why.
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03-29-2012 , 08:57 AM
Rate this move as a 3 :P as in please sit on my table and let me outdraw you for free . Worst line on flop checking DH flop with 2 opponents vs you, I would even bet 6-7ish on flop. What happend in the hand did you end up going broke vs his flush or straight :P
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03-29-2012 , 09:09 AM
Re: Flybine's list, it's not that they won't bet if you check to them, but that they are more likely to fold if you check raise. Lead and you are more likely to get multiple streets of value.

Or did you plan to cc? In which case what are you trying to do here? Rep a draw which you will be in trouble for if it hits?

I'd rate this as a 8/10 leak as you're just going to end up mostly winning a small pot or losing a big one if you take this line.
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03-29-2012 , 11:08 AM
i was shown results and hero won a big pot

Last edited by isunkurbttlship; 03-29-2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason: just sayin
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03-29-2012 , 11:53 AM
Not that it matters but results were CO ended up bet/3-bet shoving over my flop ch/r with AdJd.
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03-30-2012 , 08:14 AM
We have top set on a draw heavy board OOP in a 4-way pot. We have a decisive equity advantage against any distribution of hands, so any money that goes in on the flop is profit in our pockets. The only possible reasons to check here are
  • By checking the flop we hope to get in more money on later streets;
  • By check-raising we hope to get more money in on this street

I think the first point is easily dismissed. Which hands would fold to a flop bet, but call a turn bet? Since this is multiway I wouldn't expect any draw to fold here since the implied odds are good. Made hands with more than one pair wouldn't fold to a continuation bet, neither. This leaves 1-pair hands. The fish won't fold a pair on the flop, and the regs will probably not fold to the first bet with any decent pair.

So we want to check-raise. Which hands will bet this flop multiway for value? Certainly sets and the nut flush draw, as well as 87 for two pair. Non-nut draws are better off playing passively since the fold equity is reduced multiway, and they want to maximise their implied odds. The cut-off may also bet top pair, but there's only one queen left, and he may actually fold to our check-raise. I don't think he has many overpairs in his range.

It looks to me like most of the hands that give us two bets on the flop if we check-raise - sets and NFD - will also raise us when we bet out, hence giving us at least two bets in this case. So there doesn't seem to be any reason to check-raise here. Again, since it is multiway, wet, and a fish in the pot, I don't expect the CO to bluff here a lot.

This leaves us with the fundamentally correct play - bet it when you have it.

On a scale from 1 to 10 I'd give checking here a 3.
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