Easy river Fold? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Easy river Fold?

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05-24-2023 , 05:09 PM

DooDooPoker

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Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 1(BB)
HERO ($116.73) [VPIP: 28.6% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 37.4% | Flop Agg: 44% | Turn Agg: 33.4% | River Agg: 36% | 3-Bet: 11.5% | Fold to 3-Bet: 62% | 4-Bet: 14.9% | Hands: 205723]
UTG ($148.55) [VPIP: 50% | PFR: 33.3% | AGG: 44.4% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 66.7% | River Agg: 66.7% | 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 6]
HJ ($203.49) [VPIP: 18.6% | PFR: 18.6% | AGG: 45.5% | Hands: 45]
CO ($120.47) [VPIP: 25% | PFR: 18.2% | AGG: 27.3% | Hands: 45]
BTN ($71.36) [VPIP: 40.9% | PFR: 29.5% | AGG: 46.7% | Hands: 45]
SB ($132.77) [VPIP: 27.8% | PFR: 19.4% | AGG: 28.6% | Hands: 37]

Dealt to Hero: A

UTG Raises To $2.50, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, HERO Raises To $13, UTG Calls $10.50

Hero SPR on Flop: [3.91 effective]
Flop ($26.50): 5

HERO Checks, UTG Checks

Turn ($26.50): 5

HERO Checks, UTG Bets $18.89 (Rem. Stack: $116.66), HERO Calls $18.89 (Rem. Stack: $84.84)

River ($64.28): 5

HERO Checks, UTG Bets $116.66 (allin), HERO ?

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05-24-2023 , 05:14 PM

aner0

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imo yes, not close too

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05-24-2023 , 05:16 PM

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

imo yes

Are you folding AA no club here?

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05-24-2023 , 05:18 PM

aner0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Are you folding AA no club here?

100%

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05-24-2023 , 05:18 PM

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Given the position Villan doest have many off suit combo to turn into bluff. Your holding is blocking some of his offsuit hand that he can use as bluff.

Given the board texture and the position I think we have enough overpair with a club in this line to call him down. If we need to call with some A high (I don't think so), having a club blocker is strictly better

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05-24-2023 , 05:21 PM

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

100%

So we are just basically range folding here? Not saying it's bad but we don't have much to call with.

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05-24-2023 , 05:21 PM

aner0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

So we are just basically range folding here? Not saying it's bad but we don't have much to call with.

No AK is not even a bluff catcher and AA is the worst possible catcher in our range, folding those doesn't mean range folding. They are for all intents and purposes the absolute worst hands you can have here besides 0 equity hands

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05-24-2023 , 05:23 PM

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by L94E

I'm not even sure having a club blockers matters that much in this spot after thinking about it.

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05-24-2023 , 05:24 PM

aner0

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Having a club definitely matters because your opponent doesn't have a lot of bluffs with a club and of course has a flush sometimes, so best bluff catchers here are non-AA overpairs with a club

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05-24-2023 , 05:26 PM

#10

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

AK isn't a bluff catcher because UTG bluffs AK? I haven't solved this hand.

I'm just thinking about what my calling range is here I have almost no 6x except maybe some 76s/65s that decided to play tricky.

I should fold all bluff catchers here I think though because this jam sizing is pretty nutted.

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05-24-2023 , 05:27 PM

#11

aner0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

well count his bluffs and tell me what he has to come up with here to have enough. AK seems like the most obvious one
If you don't think he's bluffing AK then calling anything is terrible

ATs can fold pre sometimes, AJ AQ can fold turn, the ones that call mainly just hit the flush... What are you hoping he bluffs?

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05-24-2023 , 05:32 PM

#12

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

I was thinking they call too much preflop so he has AQo/AJs/ATs etc and those probably stab turn a lot.

But they probably check back river because population is scared.

I think I just completely over estimate people's tendencies and think people play way crazier than they actually do. My river call efficiency is so bad from just punt calling spots like this every 500 hands or so.

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05-24-2023 , 05:33 PM

#13

aner0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Ooooh I misread action as you Probing turn

I still don't like calling but now i understand your question better my bad
You don't have to find calls with **** hands to have enough calls, i imagine based on what i know from you that if we look at your database you're stationing river because you overestimate how much the solver needs to defend

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05-24-2023 , 05:34 PM

#14

L94E

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Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Considering the nl50 rake in GTOwiz, if villan is playing the exact same strategy he only has 50% of AKo in his range as off combo. Basically OTR he runs out of bluffs.

I was watching a Clanty's video where he was reviewing some of his hands and he said that there are a lot of spot were check overfolding is fine, probably this is one of them

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05-24-2023 , 05:37 PM

#15

newguyhere

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

My river call efficiency is so bad from just punt calling spots like this every 500 hands or so.

What is your RCE? Honestly I've tried reading about it, and I still don't understand it or what's a good number to have.

But I would fold here.

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05-24-2023 , 05:37 PM

#16

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

Yeah I didn't realize AK wasn't a 0 EV bluff catcher.

I have a hard time getting value thresholds on these UTGvsBB 3bp spots because they basically never come up.

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05-24-2023 , 05:38 PM

#17

DooDooPoker

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Originally Posted by newguyhere

What is your RCE? Honestly I've tried reading about it, and I still don't understand it or what's a good number to have.

But I would fold here.

it's 1 exactly. Wumpy told me that is basically horrible and I should be shooting for 1.4

I couldn't tell you what that means though. But I know my W$@SD is low just from stationing hands like this.

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05-24-2023 , 05:39 PM

#18

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by L94E

Yeah I think this is going to be a flush a lot, wish I could see that in game

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05-24-2023 , 05:41 PM

#19

newguyhere

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

it's 1 exactly. Wumpy told me that is basically horrible and I should be shooting for 1.4

I couldn't tell you what that means though. But I know my W$@SD is low just from stationing hands like this.

Ah okay mine is 0.9.

So folding more increases it, or just winning more when we call?

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05-24-2023 , 05:41 PM

#20

aner0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

it's 1 exactly. Wumpy told me that is basically horrible and I should be shooting for 1.4

I couldn't tell you what that means though. But I know my W$@SD is low just from stationing hands like this.

Yea 1 is insanely low, depending on your tracker it's accounted differently, on HM3 1.2 or so is good
1 basically means you don't make money when calling river, which is terrible because sometimes you're calling river with traps.

0.9 means that you lose so much by calling with bluff catchers that you don't even make it up by sometimes having an actually good hand

W$SD you should mostly shoot for >50. Some people manage 48 49 but it starts to get a bit stupid at that point

Btw i checked wizard and calling this on river loses like 30bb or smth, hard to justify with reads

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05-24-2023 , 05:44 PM

#21

DooDooPoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

Oh okay I didn't realize that's what it meant.

I still don't know how to stop being a station, I think it's more of a mental leak although in this spot it was both a mental and technical leak because I didn't know value thresholds.

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05-24-2023 , 05:48 PM

#22

aner0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Well this one in terms of what you posted about unblocking bluffs is terrible because his bluffs are mostly Ax

My advice to stop being a station is:
1. Make your readless baseline something actually resembling of GTO and not just something you come up on a whim, because if you go by feel as your baseline even when there's nothing to read into, you will end up just following your bias and rationalising it afterwards.

2. Make sure to analyse the bluffing composition of the lines your opponents take, you can fold 100% of hands or call 100% of hands in some spots and you shouldn't really be bothered by it if you have an actually good reason

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05-24-2023 , 05:54 PM

#23

L94E

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Yeah I think this is going to be a flush a lot, wish I could see that in game

You forgot to apply what you learnt from YOUR poll ahahahah

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05-25-2023 , 09:13 AM

#24

Franchise804

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Seems like an easy fold, even if that means we are overfolding in theory

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

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