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Easy call with 2nd nuts? Easy call with 2nd nuts?

08-02-2010 , 12:28 AM
No real info on the guy except he seemed solid from every position except late position he loosened up quite a bit. Opened with about 35% pfr from CO or BTN. Does anyone know if this hand is fold-able?

sorry hand is posted below
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 12:29 AM
Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $26.10
MP2: $34.76
CO: $26.05
Hero (BTN): $25.00
SB: $25.68
BB: $8.40
UTG: $26.79
UTG+1: $36.27

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with J K
4 folds, CO raises to $0.85, Hero calls $0.85, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.05) 9 7 T (2 players)
CO bets $1.56, Hero raises to $3.75, CO calls $2.19

Turn: ($9.55) 8 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $3.50, CO calls $3.50

River: ($16.55) J (2 players)
CO bets $17.95 all in
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 12:38 AM
yes this is a snap call. i don't care what he has. I'm calling this all day long. If he has the nuts, it's a cooler. Looks like villain at least has a Q in his hand. or even KQ for nut straight. Out of technicality, you have the 3rd nuts. Nuts is 76dd. Since you have the Jd.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 01:00 AM
very easy
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphakenny1
yes this is a snap call. i don't care what he has. I'm calling this all day long. If he has the nuts, it's a cooler. Looks like villain at least has a Q in his hand. or even KQ for nut straight. Out of technicality, you have the 3rd nuts. Nuts is 76dd. Since you have the Jd.
ur right ur right ty
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 01:47 AM
I read the all in as a defensive move here. If he had the better flush he wouldn't be trying to discourage action. I'd be calling here.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 01:58 AM
Easy call, he could easily be doing this with a hand like KQ hoping you think he's trying to buy the split or maybe have a Q, he could also have a Q hoping you call to split.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:33 AM
calling all day
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:36 AM
Sorry you lost.

The river is not your problem here. The flop raise is too small, as is the turn value bet.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blame_hofmann
Sorry you lost.

The river is not your problem here. The flop raise is too small, as is the turn value bet.
Could you help me with an idea of what good sizing would be here on both flop raise and turn value bet? Thanks for the sympathy as well. This was my first shot at 25nl and I was up 12bb in a little over 120 hands and this hand happened so it's back to 10nl to rebuild.
Turn bet was so smalll because I had seen him make a move earlier where he raised a small turn bet and folded to a shove.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Jarman
Could you help me with an idea of what good sizing would be here on both flop raise and turn value bet? Thanks for the sympathy as well. This was my first shot at 25nl and I was up 12bb in a little over 120 hands and this hand happened so it's back to 10nl to rebuild.
Turn bet was so smalll because I had seen him make a move earlier where he raised a small turn bet and folded to a shove.
I would raise the flop to about $5.50. Based on your description villian sounds like a TAG, so I'm going to assume he's fairly competent. A small raise here looks like a semi-bluff or a bluff on a wet board - there's no way any decent player (hopefully he sees you as such!) would make such a small raise with a made hand. There's no real need to have balanced ranges at micro stakes, but you don't want to telegraph your hand either.

On the turn as played I'm betting at least half the pot. You may get value from straights, and if he's misplayed a set by flatting the flop then you don't want to let him boat up cheap. He may also have AAx, A8x & ATx.

You might want to read up a little on bankroll management (BRM). You can search the topic on this board, it has been discussed a lot. Most people would argue that there's no problem being fluid with your roll and moving frequently between limits, but if you have to move down to rebuild after getting stacked once then that sounds a little extreme! I would suggest you'd want to give yourself a minimum of 5BIs to take a shot with, otherwise short-term variance is gonna make it very tough for your shot to ever succeed.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 04:57 AM




Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 05:30 AM
If you are measuring how much you are up in bb and if losing one stack sends you down a level you likely don't have enough to be playing said level and as a result of this will end up being way too results oriented (hence this thread). And yeah fistpumpdanceajigsnapcall. He opened CO has so many worse flushes in his range, let alone random bluffs with Ad or w/e he can have here.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
If you are measuring how much you are up in bb and if losing one stack sends you down a level you likely don't have enough to be playing said level and as a result of this will end up being way too results oriented (hence this thread). And yeah fistpumpdanceajigsnapcall. He opened CO has so many worse flushes in his range, let alone random bluffs with Ad or w/e he can have here.
This is very important IMO.

Also I'm with hofmann, flop is too small and turn is a joke. Bet around $5.8 or $6.1. This makes a river shove more easy and also more appealing for villain to call.

And as digger already mentioned with his little picture story... you only got the third nuts ;-)
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blame_hofmann
I would raise the flop to about $5.50. Based on your description villian sounds like a TAG, so I'm going to assume he's fairly competent. A small raise here looks like a semi-bluff or a bluff on a wet board - there's no way any decent player (hopefully he sees you as such!) would make such a small raise with a made hand. There's no real need to have balanced ranges at micro stakes, but you don't want to telegraph your hand either.

On the turn as played I'm betting at least half the pot. You may get value from straights, and if he's misplayed a set by flatting the flop then you don't want to let him boat up cheap. He may also have AAx, A8x & ATx.

You might want to read up a little on bankroll management (BRM). You can search the topic on this board, it has been discussed a lot. Most people would argue that there's no problem being fluid with your roll and moving frequently between limits, but if you have to move down to rebuild after getting stacked once then that sounds a little extreme! I would suggest you'd want to give yourself a minimum of 5BIs to take a shot with, otherwise short-term variance is gonna make it very tough for your shot to ever succeed.
I feel that I am a little too much results oriented but I never have a problem with tilting or getting discouraged about my game because I have understood variance and I want people to call me with the worst of it all day long and they will draw out a certain percentage of the time. I have decided to take a shot with 20BI so I gave myself a stop loss of 2BI. I moved down after this loss because I felt a bad wave of cards coming and I was right, but I think the move down after this saved me mass $.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 01:04 PM
Give yourself more than 2 buy-ins for a shot. At the very least wait until you have ~25 buy-ins for it then take 5 buy-in shot. You're going to make a lot of money playing aggressively and putting opponents in tough spots and if you're constantly worried that if you lose 2 stacks your shot will be a failure you're not going to be able to do that.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
Give yourself more than 2 buy-ins for a shot. At the very least wait until you have ~25 buy-ins for it then take 5 buy-in shot. You're going to make a lot of money playing aggressively and putting opponents in tough spots and if you're constantly worried that if you lose 2 stacks your shot will be a failure you're not going to be able to do that.
This is the most common thing that I have heard but I am 100% I can beat 25nl and I feel like my edge is even greater there because some of the moves I make would play much better there than at 10nl. I also have read and completely agree that when you are playing below your skill level because of your roll you may as well take shots frequently because the cards will break even and you will be able to gain the roll required to play the higher stakes more comfortably. Is this crazy? would a 4 BI shot be considered ok with a 20 BI roll?
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Jarman
This is the most common thing that I have heard but I am 100% I can beat 25nl and I feel like my edge is even greater there because some of the moves I make would play much better there than at 10nl. I also have read and completely agree that when you are playing below your skill level because of your roll you may as well take shots frequently because the cards will break even and you will be able to gain the roll required to play the higher stakes more comfortably. Is this crazy? would a 4 BI shot be considered ok with a 20 BI roll?
anybody who has ever said this, ever, is usually misunderstanding very important things.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Split*
anybody who has ever said this, ever, is usually misunderstanding very important things.
Help me understand. What am I missing?
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:39 PM
poker isnt about "making moves". it is about taking information, analyzing information, and taking optimal plays based around the analysis. so if you cannot adjust and beat 10NL (where your edge should almost always be higher than at 25NL), then your "moves" are probably bad in the first place.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Split*
poker isnt about "making moves". it is about taking information, analyzing information, and taking optimal plays based around the analysis. so if you cannot adjust and beat 10NL (where your edge should almost always be higher than at 25NL), then your "moves" are probably bad in the first place.
I'm sorry I was so vague. I definitely understand that poker is about taking your opponents info and adjusting to play a style that will exploit their weaknesses the most, in turn maximizing your EV. What I am referring to is when an opponent seems solid at 10nl (able to fold 3rd pair to a TAG 3 barrel), but then out of the blue call down my 3 barrels of air with their K 10 off and type something like, wow, I was just curious what you had. People who are recreational players at 25nl tend to respect their stacks a little more and won't usually stack off just to see the opponents hand I am hoping.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:50 PM
thinking that poker is about running big plays that expose big pieces of our stack is also missing the big picture. go read sir cuddles guide to beating the micros or diggers nit clinic. these threads should highlight the things I am more or less alluding to
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Jarman
I'm sorry I was so vague. I definitely understand that poker is about taking your opponents info and adjusting to play a style that will exploit their weaknesses the most, in turn maximizing your EV. What I am referring to is when an opponent seems solid at 10nl (able to fold 3rd pair to a TAG 3 barrel), but then out of the blue call down my 3 barrels of air with their K 10 off and type something like, wow, I was just curious what you had. People who are recreational players at 25nl tend to respect their stacks a little more and won't usually stack off just to see the opponents hand I am hoping.
I won't say not to ever bluff at 10NL, but it's definitely not necessary and at any level, a bluff isn't going to work 100% of the time. Maybe you have a crappy table image. If I see someone triple barreling a wide range over and over again, I'm going to call him down with third pair as well.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Split*
thinking that poker is about running big plays that expose big pieces of our stack is also missing the big picture. go read sir cuddles guide to beating the micros or diggers nit clinic. these threads should highlight the things I am more or less alluding to
It's not that I think that's what poker is...who does? I do feel that sometimes it is necessary and +EV to do so. Thank you for the info and the extra material. Greatly appreciated.
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote
08-02-2010 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Jarman
I'm sorry I was so vague. I definitely understand that poker is about taking your opponents info and adjusting to play a style that will exploit their weaknesses the most, in turn maximizing your EV. What I am referring to is when an opponent seems solid at 10nl (able to fold 3rd pair to a TAG 3 barrel), but then out of the blue call down my 3 barrels of air with their K 10 off and type something like, wow, I was just curious what you had. People who are recreational players at 25nl tend to respect their stacks a little more and won't usually stack off just to see the opponents hand I am hoping.
Why on earth would you 3 barrel at 10NL?

Let me put it another way. How often do you bet the flop and turn and then get a fold on the river?
Easy call with 2nd nuts? Quote

      
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