Donking Flops - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Donking Flops

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08-13-2017 , 06:41 PM

Oregon Rick

adept

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 770

In what kind of spots, which types of hands or perceived ranges, against what types of opponents do you find it profitable to donk flops. I don't personally do it very often. I probably don't do it often enough, and I probably don't always pick the right spot to do it.

Thanks for any feedback on this.

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08-13-2017 , 10:14 PM

datacedoe

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 287

i donk mainly in multiway pots where i have a range advantage (ex: in the bb on a 876tt board), boards where pfr isn't going to cbet often and we don't want to give a free card, scenarios where we flop big and the players next to act before pfr are fish (ex: 2 limpers in ep-mp, button isolates, we call in bb) and we can get value from the fish right away and allow pfr to raise to reopen the action, whereas if we check to pfr and he bets, we may miss value by raising and folding out the fish. i also donk ott sometimes where the turn is better for my range (ex: pfr cbets on J86, turn comes a 6 or 8)

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08-14-2017 , 01:48 AM

bachegabrielsen

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by datacedoe

How do you balance your donk bluff/value betting?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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08-14-2017 , 02:26 AM

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Rick

In what kind of spots, which types of hands or perceived ranges, against what types of opponents do you find it profitable to donk flops. I don't personally do it very often. I probably don't do it often enough, and I probably don't always pick the right spot to do it.

Thanks for any feedback on this.

Doug once told that its ok not to have a donk range. Meaning u shouldn't donk in any given situation.

Think it is the best way to approach this, since you don't need to scratch your head with it.

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08-14-2017 , 03:47 AM

ALongmuir

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,072

Donking strategies only apply on boards which are more favourable to your range than the PFR, e.g. BTN vs BB 875 etc. Donking strategies complicate your whole game tree massively and are hard to balance so you'll find your time is better spent on other spots than creating a more complicated strategy for marginally more EV.

fwiw checking your whole range on 875 is better than donking strategy at micros because of how weak BTNs checking range is. You'll find villains rarely are checking back hands which can call two streets, making betting lots of turns with ATC a valid and profitable strategy.

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08-14-2017 , 04:05 AM

James Worthy

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALongmuir

Not that hard to balance in a vacuum, but it will eliminate a part of your range that favors a checkraise.

Donk for value in multi way pots when there is a fish and where the PFR is unlikely to cbet and the fish likely to call a bunch.

So reg opens, Fish cold calls BTN we call BB with 77 flop 764ss for instance.

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08-14-2017 , 04:29 AM

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Worthy

....So reg opens, Fish cold calls BTN we call BB with 77 flop 764ss for instance.

Think c/r will do the job for you.

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08-14-2017 , 04:37 AM

ALongmuir

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,072

Balancing a donking strategy over multiple streets is easier said than done, especially with such wide ranges, it's so easy to donk way too much value and leave your checking range destroyed. OPs time is better spent elsewhere imo.

vs fish obviously donking is a fine adjustment.

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08-14-2017 , 04:50 AM

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,639

You should DB in some spots where you have many strong hands because if you dont your checking range is too strong so your opponent dosnt want to bet because you never fold,most of the time that is not the case when you are in BB playing vs CO or BTN because BB range is caped and weak so its never too strong even if you check everything.

Some of the spot are probably if you have SB calling SB should DB some boards or in 3b pots UTGvsBTN COvsBTN when board smashes your range,but even in those spots you can check everything as exploit because ppl tend to auto cbet regardless of the texture.

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08-14-2017 , 05:01 AM

#10

jaypatel33

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltoZZ

Think c/r will do the job for you.

Your assuming regs will Cbet.

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08-14-2017 , 05:04 AM

#11

James Worthy

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALongmuir

Balancing a donking strategy over multiple streets is easier said than done, especially with such wide ranges, it's so easy to donk way too much value and leave your checking range destroyed. OPs time is better spent elsewhere imo.

vs fish obviously donking is a fine adjustment.

Agreed

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltoZZ

Think c/r will do the job for you.

That means you're c-betting too much

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08-14-2017 , 05:22 AM

#12

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Worthy

Agreed

That means you're c-betting too much

+1

I ment that it is so much ''easier'' to play the game, when you dont have a donk range. One less ''area'' to study for.

I much prefer try to balance my bet turn vs missed cbet and c/r -ranges.

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08-14-2017 , 05:26 AM

#13

James Worthy

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 61

Agreed, but in the hypothetical situation maximizing EV should be your only concern.

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08-14-2017 , 05:57 AM

#14

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Worthy

Agreed, but in the hypothetical situation maximizing EV should be your only concern.

Good point. I agree on this. You should always make the max EV play.

On the other hand, if ''the legend'' himself said that it is OK not to have donk range and yet still have a good win rate.

But mehhh... I'd still lean towards having no donk range. My brain can't handle all this balancing/adjusting/etc on donk betting....

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08-14-2017 , 08:23 AM

#15

Oregon Rick

adept

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 770

Thanks for all the replies and the great information. It gives me a bit to think about.

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08-14-2017 , 08:34 AM

#16

Oregon Rick

adept

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 770

Quote:

Originally Posted by datacedoe

i donk mainly in multiway pots... where we flop big and the players next to act before pfr are fish (ex: 2 limpers in ep-mp, button isolates, we call in bb) and we can get value from the fish right away and allow pfr to raise to reopen the action

I like this idea. I can see a lot of value in it. It's probably not all that balanced, but when you have a couple fish behind you, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

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