• Preflop, raise to 3x (plus 1x for each limper)
• Pot flop
• Pot turn
• Shove river

Discuss.

1st

also, agreeaments with pot/pot/shove

'cept when you hit bottom set on the flop. Then minbet.

Looks good

It depends...?

seems to be 90% of the advice on here.

Well played.

That's good advice against passive fish when we have a good hand (TPTK), against regulars we should vary our betsizing to induce lighter calls when making thin V bets, it is important to always take a look at board texture and put people on ranges and try to extract the max of their calling range IMO.

also overbet fish with the nuts if the board is wet

eZ game

IN WHAT UNIVERSE SIR, IN WHAT UNIVERSE?

why 3x +1 and not 2x +1 or 4x +1?

I thought I was the only one doing this

I started writing out some discussion points but don't think I can say it better than Split did w/

Bet Sizing - Thinking about value

Finally we get some actual discussion. Of course the whole OP including the preflop line was meant as a joke to get the thread started.

As always you should think what you would like to accomplish with your preflop raise. Often you want a heads-up pot with position. Then think how to achieve that. 3x+1 or 4x+1 are just standard lines that often work. With 2x+1 you give setminers excellent odds and you most likely end up in a multiway pot.

What are your thoughts on raising more preflop with premiuns when a 70/20 is in the blinds? like to 8bb UTG with AA

You can obviously vary between the two too. I generally use 4x+1 from EP and 3x+1 from MP1 and on. I might do 4x+1 from the button because I've had a staggeringly higher steal success than with 3x+1.

^ It's super exploitable and even braindead monkeys are gonna pick that up. It seems to be somewhat the FOTM at uNL these days, I see a lot of people doing it at 2nl. I mean, against a maniac you obviously wanna raise to induce so raising even smaller than usual might be a better idea.

Like this, this is similar to my default. Im still 3bb+ 2bb for the 1st limper and +1 for any subsequent limper from LP and MP and 4BB+2 from ep. Would like to hear your reasons behind EP and MP sizes though. Is it because your range is stronger from EP and so its a good way of getting more in ahead pre?

I add 2 for the 1st limper as people tend to limp fold so much I get a little extra the times they flat and check fold the flop and it discorages action behind me. If this still goes multi way too often, i'll just tighten up and raise bigger.

I saw a 6max vid by pokey a while back, he did 4X from utg, 3.5X from mp, 3X from co and min raise from button as people adjusted to his small steals badly.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...g-25nl-252810/

However I know people who play the opposite of this, min raise utg and 4X the button, to keep the pot smaller when their oop. I hate this as it invites people to play you when your OOP.

Personally i'll only min raise if there's tight players in the blinds who likely to 3bet if he does play and isn't calling and c/fing flops alot. I'll do it as it costs less the times my steal goes wrong and keeps his 3bets smaller which keeps SPR smaller if I have a hand I want to flat and play IP. But its not my default and I feel dirty for doing it.

Betsizing post-flop should be an interesting discussion, that's my biggest leaks in NL holdem, I dont take too much time to improve that.

Yeah. It doesn't really give anything away either, as any competent player already knows that my range is tighter in EP. It builds a slightly bigger pot and it's not a ridiculous overraise. I see people doing 8x, 16x or 25x with QQ+ but that's just stupid imo, for reasons I stated in my initial post.

pokeys betsizing is probably more efficient at 6max tables than at FR tables, but it's definitely something I've been experimenting with and something worth trying. In my experience, minraises from the button was getting defended a lot more than 3x or 4x. 4x has been the most profitable for me at FR.

Doing the opposite is nothing short of terribad imo, especially if your postflop game is unsteady (which is the case for a lot of unl regs, me included).

Just curious what do people use as default 3bet and 4 bet sizes? Ive always used just over 3X the inital raise or 4.5X if facing a min raise to deny a cheep flop ( which min raisers are often aiming for) when IP and make it 1-2BB larger OOP as I usually have better hands, to reduce SPR to simplify decisions and as I feel people will call more when I'm OOP so I have a better range on average anyway.

I do know people who always 4 bet around 2.2-2.5X, does this often accomplish the same thing?

As far as post flop goes, my cbets tend to vary with board texture between just over 1/2 for dry boards and 2/3 for wet boards, in 3bet pots I sometimes c-bet 1/3 pot but this is villian dependent. The rest is done based on reads or what im trying to acomplish with the bet and so varys alot.

didn't catch the joke

did you up these standards when you are sb/bb?

Not as profitable as it used to be.

Still profitable anything 25nl and under.

My standard betsizing is 4xBB + 1BB per limper from EP and then 3xBB + 1BB per limper from MP and LP. I picked it up in a video by Johnny Everypot which he posted about a year ago. It's value is from encouraging people to play against us OOP and discouraging people when we're OOP. I've found that a minraise from the button does nothing at 10NL, fwiw.

With that said, poker is all about adjusting. If I'm being called light then I'll wait for a good starting hand and also make my raises bigger. If my opponents are folding a lot preflop 2.5BB + 1BB per limper is sufficient with opening a wider range of hands.

Some quick ramblings on the topic;

Still the number #1 leak for the player pool at the micros is calling too much. Espescially preflop and flop. Since the majority of our profits come from value lines, we should be error on the larger size for our bets than the smaller. Doing this earlier in the hand on preflop/flop will make turn and river play very profitable even if we don't pot those two streets.

Board texture is important, wet boards are wet since they hit more of villains range, so we should bet closer to pot (even over bet the flop in some circumstances) on the flop because there is a lot more of villains range we can get value from. Dry flops, we need to learn to betsize appropriately for the villain to get the largest range we get value from to call.

Turn bets can/and probably should be a little smaller than flop bets, because its easier for villains to realize that their stacks will be threaten than on the flop (for some reason two streets of calcs is hard for them to determine I guess). Also turn commit villains, so thin about continuation ranges.

River calls that are not all ins, will be called more than turn bets, because of no future action, if villain has some value, they will talk them into calling with lots of weak hands.

Don't underestimate the effectiveness of the value shove on the river against fish/donks/unkowns. Curiosity leaves the cat broke and homeless.

Preflop betsizing is extremely important. The larger SPR we enter the flop with, the more important position/skill is as compared to card strength. So if you have the top of your range and are giving up skill/position don't be afraid to make your bets bigger. A corrollary to this, is if you can get position on someone (because the overdefend blinds, or limp call), you can leave room to operate with non-premium hands by making your bets smaller. VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: this is a balancing act, though, as we rather have more money at play when we are IN POSITION than OUT. So figure out the right balance for yourself.

Don't worry too much about being exploitable, worry more about exploiting the current situation you are in.

Good post, thanks.