Villian is Hero from this cruelly discontinued thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...ng-c-f-856805/

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 4044004400404004040040400404004044404004444444488
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $91.00
BTN: $25.00
SB: $55.00
BB: $105.00
UTG: $50.00
MP: $85.00

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with 9 9
1 fold, MP raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.50) 8 5 5 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $4.00, Hero calls $4, BB folds

Turn: ($13.50) 9 (3 players)
MP bets $9.00, Hero raises to $27.50, MP calls $18.50

River: ($68.50) 8 (3 players)

So how much (if anything) should we bet to maximize value from his range? He has a 3/4 pot bet remaining in his stack however this is also a 100BB bet ($51.75) so I feel this is far from a trivial question and making the wrong bet size can 'lose' us massive amounts of BB/100 given the frequency with which such a luscious and orgasmic jewel of a hand is likely to cross our path.

- If you say shove, what range would you say you'd call a shove with after having taken this line, pretending youre MP?

Call turn imo. Hands that stack off on the turn are betting rivers themselves.

Unless a 4th heart comes and they don't have one... or a 3rd five and they don't have a pair... or the board double pairs...

I mean given that every draw got there on the turn they can't possibly not have a hand can they?

they can have bluffs that bet river

they can fold overpairs that bet river

they can have 2nd nuts that bet river

they can fold middling hands that decide to c/c river, but fold turn

This, and give him a chance to triple overs + a heart. Raise turn and he could conceivably fold a lot of strong hands, although tbh he prob wont.

This is a spot where I nearly always shove. Its a mistake so I will be watching this thread closely to see what better sizing to take.

Now that I look at it I'll add my 2pence worth...

I think hes got a lot of overpairs in his range here maybe with a big heart. Its villain dependant whether he can find a fold here. If hes a station Im jamming this and leaving him to call me down with an overpair or strangely played flush.

If hes a decent player(Ive stopped being lazy now and checked out your other thread, lol)...Im betting $20-$25 here. I want him to pay off his overpairs, my bet looks like a blocking bet and if hes got that overpair hes ahead of that range. If villain has any 8x, hes shipping it in anyways, but I dont think hes got much 8x in his range anyway.

So yea, $20-$25 is my bet here.

Interesting, perhaps the turn callers are right. Just Out of curiosity. Suppose you were MP, held A A . CO has flatted your flop and turn bets both on the above board. Which rivers do you bet and why?

i would bet almost every river, probably only checking hearts, and fold to shove on all of them that aren't A

On this turn Im b/f'ing AA but Im not sure other 50NL players are. One thing I notice about nitty players is, they may nit it up pre, but when they do get post flop with AA, they really do not like folding it.

Im c/f any river that doesnt fill me up. Nothing hes betting for value we beat. Unless hes got some JJ/TT hand he was calling down to SD now turns into a super thin value bet? Which is like never.

and would you fold same hand if turn was raised?

pretty much

it's a crazy spot to value raise, but they aren't bluffing here

We have only one true pro uNL and his name is TheWizardofOddz and while he is levels above the rest of us his advice will cost you

Lol fanboyaments

It's a clear cut shove. You can't ask what we would call a shove with without telling us anything on how you played previously on the table. But generally I don't think I would b/c anything as MP on the turn. I either would fold or shove the turn OOP after your raise.

And I agree with others on the call turn line. Raising that turn is so strong he can't really continue without a flush unless there is some dynamic going on.

And what's with "so how much (_if anything_) should we bet to maximize value"
You don't think there is value? I get what you are implying: "he doesn't continue with 5x OTT, 8x the same, 88 and 55 beat us and a flush is now beaten by any 8x, so he can only call with quads"

I don't buy that. There are exactly 2 combos of hands that beat us. We shove and hope he makes a mistake by calling with 5x or a flush or even QQ. If you think he folds everything but the nuts on the turn, you should never have raised him there. If he can call the turn with an overpair trips or flush, he can surely call the river with them.

turn seems fine if villain is a regfish now ship river.

Once he calls your turn raise, I think not shoving is criminal. There range is already narrow calling that raise.

The range that is continuing after you raise your going to get stacks from on river anyway if you call turn bet. I think the turn play is very villain dependent. Against a good reg I am not a fan of raising, since they should know you really never have a bluff range here. After PFR bets into 2 players on a semi-wet board and ultimate scare card hits. Against a weaker reg I don't mind raising, I don't think they are good enough to lay down overpairs with heart and most c/c too much on this board texture.