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Common (infuriating) situation Common (infuriating) situation

08-24-2010 , 06:39 AM
No stats, no reads, no underwear on.

Party, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $4.52
UTG: $26.84
UTG+1: $9.90
MP1: $10
Hero (MP2): $16.89
CO: $11.34
BTN: $12.47
SB: $11.42

Pre-Flop: K J dealt to Hero (MP2)
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, SB calls $0.35, BB folds

Flop: ($0.90) K 3 4 (2 Players)
SB bets $0.64, Hero calls $0.64

Turn: ($2.18) 3 (2 Players)
SB bets $1.56, Hero calls $1.56

River: ($5.30) 7 (2 Players)
SB bets $5.04, Hero (screams WTF)?
Common (infuriating) situation Quote
08-24-2010 , 07:36 AM
Pretty clear you have a king. River is definitely a fold, the flop might even be a fold.
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08-24-2010 , 08:42 AM
Even with a dry flop like this I dont see how we can fold on the flop HU IP. But I definitely think about folding the turn and would definitely fold the river.

After that I might do something against the underwear-problem.
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08-24-2010 , 09:13 AM
Just shove man, you have no underwear. Rock out with your c*ck out.
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08-24-2010 , 09:18 AM
Any thoughts about raising flop? As played definate fold on river maybe turn imo
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08-24-2010 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrugby
Any thoughts about raising flop? As played definate fold on river maybe turn imo
What for? It's a dry board...why do you wanna raise exactly? Cause raising is more balla or do you like burning money?
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08-24-2010 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenjupp
Even with a dry flop like this I dont see how we can fold on the flop HU IP. But I definitely think about folding the turn and would definitely fold the river.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrugby
Any thoughts about raising flop? As played definate fold on river maybe turn imo
No value in raising a very dry flop vs unknown imo, call>raise. We don't know whats calling a raise and it over reps our hand. We may as well keep his range wide, try to avoid playing for stacks with a weak TP and re-evaluate the turn after he's acted again.
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08-24-2010 , 09:49 AM
nh
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08-24-2010 , 09:53 AM
Super easy fold on the river, villain has 56 or a set like always.

Against an unknown, I would fold turn.
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08-24-2010 , 10:03 AM
Folding the turn is probably right, but I don't think I could do it. River is an easy pitch, though. This is slow played AA, AK, or 56. Obviously sets are in his range too.
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08-24-2010 , 10:24 AM
Thanks for the feedback, of course I played it perfectly and..

Spoiler:
paid the bastartd off with his AK, why in the name of screaming piglets do so many people flat raises with AK?


It's all about discipline guys EZ game.
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08-24-2010 , 10:48 AM
Why do people flat with AK?

Well, I actually flat with AK a decent amount of the time. Let me list the reasons for it:

1) It dominates a lot of players single raised pot range.
2) People C-bet A high boards about 90% of the time, and will often fire 2 barrels
3) When you are OOP it makes life a lot easier. If you don't think your going to get a lot of folds pre-flop, then playing AK OOP is a nightmare.
4) AK is the EXACT hand that fishy villans put you on when you 3 bet, and it's always difficult to play when they villan (even if they are a fish) knows what you have.

and finally:

5) My post flop edge is bigger than my pre-flop edge most of the time. Thus, I often want a small pot pre-flop to take advantage of my edge!

Also, as a bonus, flatting AK pre-flop is often nearly as profitable as it is 3 betting it. If the value of a hand is nearly equal, I often take the lower variance route. The trade off is that I lose some meta game with regs, as I have a relatively low 3 bet percent.
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08-24-2010 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stranglylucid
Why do people flat with AK?

Well, I actually flat with AK a decent amount of the time. Let me list the reasons for it:

1) It dominates a lot of players single raised pot range.
2) People C-bet A high boards about 90% of the time, and will often fire 2 barrels
3) When you are OOP it makes life a lot easier. If you don't think your going to get a lot of folds pre-flop, then playing AK OOP is a nightmare.
4) AK is the EXACT hand that fishy villans put you on when you 3 bet, and it's always difficult to play when they villan (even if they are a fish) knows what you have.

and finally:

5) My post flop edge is bigger than my pre-flop edge most of the time. Thus, I often want a small pot pre-flop to take advantage of my edge!

Also, as a bonus, flatting AK pre-flop is often nearly as profitable as it is 3 betting it. If the value of a hand is nearly equal, I often take the lower variance route. The trade off is that I lose some meta game with regs, as I have a relatively low 3 bet percent.
I thought flatting AK was no-no except perhaps to a LP steal attempt from the blinds?
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08-24-2010 , 11:09 AM
I'd assume it depends on a lot of things.
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08-24-2010 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinJude
I thought flatting AK was no-no except perhaps to a LP steal attempt from the blinds?
There is no standard way to play a hand. Even AA is not alwayz a 3bet. Every situation is kinda different..get used to it ;-)
Common (infuriating) situation Quote
08-24-2010 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stranglylucid
Why do people flat with AK?

Well, I actually flat with AK a decent amount of the time. Let me list the reasons for it:

1) It dominates a lot of players single raised pot range.
2) People C-bet A high boards about 90% of the time, and will often fire 2 barrels
3) When you are OOP it makes life a lot easier. If you don't think your going to get a lot of folds pre-flop, then playing AK OOP is a nightmare.
4) AK is the EXACT hand that fishy villans put you on when you 3 bet, and it's always difficult to play when they villan (even if they are a fish) knows what you have.

and finally:

5) My post flop edge is bigger than my pre-flop edge most of the time. Thus, I often want a small pot pre-flop to take advantage of my edge!

Also, as a bonus, flatting AK pre-flop is often nearly as profitable as it is 3 betting it. If the value of a hand is nearly equal, I often take the lower variance route. The trade off is that I lose some meta game with regs, as I have a relatively low 3 bet percent.
OP - this standard hand you posted lead to a wonderfully non-standard post that is just brimming with valuable information in every sentence. Consider your river spew well spent.

Barry
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08-24-2010 , 11:15 AM
If I've said it once, I've said it a th.. lots of other times. When I'm totally comfortable playing AK in all situations I'll consider it a major milestone in my game. As for the moment - I still get that little 'here comes trouble' feeling when I get it.
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08-24-2010 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinJude
I thought flatting AK was no-no except perhaps to a LP steal attempt from the blinds?
Nope. Frankly, there are a LOT of situations where it is MORE profitable to flat AK than it is to 3 bet it. The only no no's are open folding AK and flatting a 3 bet OOP.
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08-24-2010 , 11:16 AM
Don't assume everybody else plays a hand the way you woud. And why did you post a hand that you thought you played perfectly, just to bitch that he flatted with AK?
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08-24-2010 , 11:18 AM
Oh, and to clarify point 3 - playing AK OOP in a 3 bet pot is a nightmare. Single raised pots are decent.
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08-24-2010 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryLyndon
OP - this standard hand you posted lead to a wonderfully non-standard post that is just brimming with valuable information in every sentence. Consider your river spew well spent.

Barry
Good point B! A positive EV spew - whoever would have thought it? LOL*


*waiting for someone to come back with how spewing can be +EV..
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08-24-2010 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane5495
Don't assume everybody else plays a hand the way you woud. And why did you post a hand that you thought you played perfectly, just to bitch that he flatted with AK?
Read the replies man. Far from thinking I played it perfectly - I made a complete balls of it. I was just seeing if people would say - ah that's normal, you can't do much about that, or if they would have folded - I posted to learn from other people - and I am.

Actually, if you read the what I've written you will easily figure out that I have a very leaky game and get badly caught out out in situations such as the OP. but the advice is to 'post hands' and have them pulled apart by people who know better and have less leaks.
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08-24-2010 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Thanks for the feedback, of course I played it perfectly and..
Quote:
I dont think I played it perfectly
.
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08-24-2010 , 11:39 AM
LOL, I think that was sarcasm.
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08-24-2010 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane5495
.
Sarcasm. I'm Irish, we do a lot of that.
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