Cold 4 bet AK then c/f flop 600nl - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Cold 4 bet AK then c/f flop 600nl

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06-28-2008 , 07:07 PM

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $698.40
SB: $600
Hero (BB): $600
UTG: $712.35
MP: $822.45
CO: $692

Pre-Flop: K

dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, CO raises to $12, BTN raises to $45, SB folds, Hero raises to $159, CO folds, BTN calls $114

Flop: ($333) 3

(2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $138, Hero folds

Results: $333 Pot ($3 Rake)
BTN mucked and WON $330 (+$171 NET)

Villain is a reg 16/14/3.1 and is one of the biggest winners in these games, standard?

Also a good question is what do we do on a Axx or a Kxx flop?

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06-28-2008 , 07:18 PM

Nielsio

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,398

What you're reasoning for the reraise size?

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06-28-2008 , 07:30 PM

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

If he 5 bet jams it makes it an easier call, and if an A or K flop its a real easy flop shove. what bet size would u make it?

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06-28-2008 , 07:34 PM

keithaldinho

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 343

looks fine really as a default. not the opponent to get to tricky against

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06-28-2008 , 07:37 PM

Kermit

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,889

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

If he 5 bet jams it makes it an easier call, and if an A or K flop its a real easy flop shove. what bet size would u make it?

~105-120. do you ever bluff in this spot?

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06-28-2008 , 07:52 PM

c_hoop

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,658

seems standard. 105 is too small out of position with a hand like AK. too many guys will mistakenly set mine with pretty much all PPs for smaller bets and if we're not cbetting 8xx boards that becomes a huge problem for us. as played the guy has a real hand and we can't move him off it on this board.

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06-28-2008 , 08:00 PM

cbboy

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,655

huggy, i think open shoving an Axx or Kxx flop would be ridiculous. the pot will be like 300 with 460 behind. why would you overbet shove there? why not check? or bet like 120 or something ridiculous?

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06-28-2008 , 08:03 PM

SlowHabit

See my coaching listing

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,394

Hate the pre-flop sizes. Make smaller gayer size bet.

I have a feeling that you just want to make it big enough so people fold [or shove] and you don't have to make decisions post-flop. Which you can achieve by using a smaller bet size.

On flop, I don't mind a gay 1/4 bet.

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06-28-2008 , 09:30 PM

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

I don't see what a gay 1/4 pot bet achieves, I think that villains range here is strickly JJ+ and if he calls PF I cant see him folding on a non A,K flop. I think a 1/4 pot bet on a A/k xx flop is better.

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06-28-2008 , 09:50 PM

#10

SlowHabit

See my coaching listing

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,394

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

If you are Villain and have AK, what do you do if I gay 1/4 pot bet you?

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06-29-2008 , 03:45 AM

#11

gguzman23

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 726

The pf 4 bet is kinda big imo. I would make it like 130-140.

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06-29-2008 , 03:55 AM

#12

MatthewRyan

President of Upswingpoker

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5,998

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowHabit

If you are Villain and have AK, what do you do if I gay 1/4 pot bet you?

shove preflop anyways

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06-29-2008 , 04:25 AM

#13

lkjhgfdsa

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,040

Do you guys realize that this is 3/6?

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06-29-2008 , 05:39 AM

#14

Nielsio

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,398

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkjhgfdsa

Do you guys realize that this is 3/6?

We do

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06-29-2008 , 07:11 AM

#15

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowHabit

If you are Villain and have AK, what do you do if I gay 1/4 pot bet you?

Why would I ever flat call a 4 bet with AK?

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06-29-2008 , 07:43 AM

#16

Arvid2k7

adept

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,069

i like this check/fold

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06-29-2008 , 09:37 AM

#17

Kermit

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,889

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkjhgfdsa

Do you guys realize that this is 3/6?

heh, i thought it was 2/4 actually.

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06-29-2008 , 10:03 AM

#18

DnBKid

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,280

if youre gonna c/f flop why not make 4bet smaller. i thought the big 4bet has you priced in

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06-29-2008 , 12:04 PM

#19

greek$spy

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 124

What's with this 4-bet less with AK?

Without specific history or reads villain looks unlikely to 5-bet shove light and probably more likely to call lighter a small 4-bet in CO vs Btn vs BB situation

Against this type of villain we can be fairly comfortable (as much as you can be lol) being pot committed on a 4bet pot since his calling range is rather narrow and he is probably (again w/o history) not going to try anything fancy on the flop

Maybe I'm making too many assumptions for villain's standard play (?)

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06-29-2008 , 12:06 PM

#20

Kermit

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,889

Quote:

What's with this 4-bet less with AK?

his actual holding is irrelevant to the bet size imo.

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06-29-2008 , 12:20 PM

#21

greek$spy

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kermit

his actual holding is irrelevant to the bet size imo.

I didn't mean to say it was relevant but since you pointed out this: If we balance preflop then don't we have to balance postflop as well? I mean surely his range post flop will be assumingly much stronger but if we c-r AA/KK and c-f AK/air isn't that more exploitable?

And second: can't we balance our 4-bet ranges enough to have 2 different bet sizes (I need to think more about this)

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06-29-2008 , 12:57 PM

#22

terp

Carnal \ 'Knowledge

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 14,780

you should either be "4betting" a wide range to a more normal pot-raise size, or you should keep a smaller (and stronger) range and go bigger. whichever you do is opponent and style-specific, but let's not treat the reraise of an isolation of a minraise a normal 4b spot.

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06-29-2008 , 01:03 PM

#23

Lefort

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,827

[TERRIBLE LOGIC]

Quote:

If he 5 bet jams it makes it an easier call

[/TERRIBLE LOGIC]

$110'ish is good. You're snapping a 5betjam with AKo if you're ever 4betbluffing here.. (which you should be...)

As for the hand, its perfectly fine. I might bet $130ish sometimes, specially if board is a bit different and I have bdfds... Only issue is that you are essentially never bluffCBing this board if you're at the top of your missing-the-flop-range and checking... but that might not be a bad thing in this situation.

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06-29-2008 , 01:07 PM

#24

cashy

we have welbeck

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 29,771

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

Villain is a reg 16/14/3.1 and is one of the biggest winners in these games

no way

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06-30-2008 , 04:45 AM

#25

gguzman23

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 726

I dont think we need to be priced into calling a 5bet shove with AK. you call it all day whether you are priced in or not.

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