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can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player?

08-05-2008 , 03:15 PM
Villain was 28/4 over 50 hands...

I was thinking of just calling his raise and c/f'ing turn if bet again but it's only 40bb's....

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $18.90
CO: $53.50
BTN: $56.10
SB: $36.30
BB: $11.35
Hero (UTG): $25

Pre-Flop: K Q dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $1, 4 folds, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.10) 8 Q 3 (2 Players)
BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2, BB raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $24 and is All-In,

Thanks,
Mariogs
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 03:17 PM
Standard, i can't see you doing anything else really
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 05:16 PM
I don't think you are using your stats to their full potential.
  • What hands does he defend with from the blinds (is Q8 in his range?)
  • How often deos he win at showdown (how spewy is he?)
  • How aggressive is he (if he had an AF of 1 it's an obvious fold)
  • if you had a larger hand sample: flop3b%
  • what hands has he shown down?

With that knowledge your decision should be easier. With what I know now I put him on a flush draw, AQ,KQ or JQ or a set. Run that through pokerstove:
Code:
	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	31.629%  	19.35% 	12.28% 	          4597 	     2918.00   { KhQs }
Hand 1: 	68.371%  	56.09% 	12.28% 	         13327 	     2918.00   { 88, 33, AQs, AhJh, AhTh, KQs, QJs, AQo, KQo }
I think you should fold this. Not only are you likely beat if he calls, when a passive player min3bets the flop alarm bells should go off!
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 05:59 PM
40 BB's is a lot and I think this villain is looking strong.

His stats are kinda fishy, and a small bet on a flop like that usually means flush draw or big hand (AQ, set, 2 pair or over pair). Since he re-raised you I think he has you beat. If he has been playing passive after the flop then I don't think this min-re raise flushdraw semi-bluff would be in his arsenal, he's not that good.

I probably fold to the min re-raise and tell my self I'm the best for reading his hand so well (even though it may be a mistake).
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 06:07 PM
Call the flop three bet then call a turn all in.
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 06:21 PM
I agree that we need more post flop info: AF, how has he been playing? Why is his stack only 40BB? etc.
That being said, as a general guidline, 40BB is about as far as you can go with a TPTK type hand, so this is kind of borderline.
To see if your all in was OK: The all in cost you about $8 into a $22 pot, so your getting just under 3:1 on your money. So you're paying about 27% of the total pot, while according to biggerben, you have 31.6% equity. That makes you +EV.

Plus, if your opponent is aggressive, or if you have been pushing pots lately, and c-betting much, your opponent might be playing back at you, and you have extra folding equity. Good move considering the stack sizes.
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 06:29 PM
This is really a simple situation. We're up against a donk with TPGK and bdfd to the second nuts. His line looks strong but he absolutely can show up here with A4s, QT, etc etc etc
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 06:52 PM
why call his rr on flop instead of shoving over it?
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 06:57 PM
Give him a chance to shove worse hands on the turn.
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 07:16 PM
i think loose aggressive is right here, let's look at the following pstove:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

32,670 games 0.048 secs 680,625 games/sec

Board: 8s Qh 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.890% 69.25% 00.64% 22623 210.00 { KhQs }
Hand 1: 30.110% 29.47% 00.64% 9627 210.00 { JJ, 99-88, 33, AhJh, AhTh, JhTh, QTo+ }

Does that look like a reasonable range?

If we take out 99 and JJ, we're down to 58%...

If we just call his flop rr and a heart turn comes, do we c/f or b/f?

Thanks,
Mariogs
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 07:30 PM
I'm sorry if I'm hogging all the responses Mariogs379, but I'm never considering folding this after the flop action. And a heart on the turn isn't the worst thing in the world. I'd weight his range more toward sets than fd's. Your range likes fine in my opinion, although you need to include QQ and I'm not sure about 99 and 88..
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 07:40 PM
i'm a bit confused then
what're your plan after his 3bet on the flop?
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 08:18 PM
Calling here is also ok, hoping to get it all in on the turn. If you're affraid of the heart, you should bet on the flop. If you just call the flop, you have to call his raise (which should be all in) or if he checks raise him all in. If the heart comes on the turn, you're still getting 3:1, he might not have a flush, and if he does, you still might have outs (if he doesn't hold the Ah).

Your pokerstove range is definitely wider than biggerben's (why did you leave out TT?) but what's important is that when you're facing a short stack (+-40BB) that you get pot committed really quickly. So soon that by the time you get some sort of idea of his range, you really often won't be able to get away from the hand anymore, because of the pot odds.
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote
08-05-2008 , 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LooseAggressive
although you need to include QQ
I think he 3bets QQ pre flop, and the chance that he holds the case QQ weighs off against the chance that he's making this play with 72o
can i fold tpgk for 40bbs against a passive player? Quote

      
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