Calling shoves with AK - Is AK overplayed? - Page 4 - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Your math is all wrong. In your prev example, you said its 75 to win 135. To calculate the amount of equity you need. its 75/(75+135). So you need 35.7% equity in order to BE. AK vs QQ/AK has 39.59% equity. So even if his 5bet shove range is 100 percent QQ and AK you still have to call. But the reason you also 4bet is to collect the dead money in the middle when he 3bets wide.

No, no and no. Thats the formula for FE. Here you want to use a standard EV calc.

Spoiler:

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09-25-2010 , 04:54 PM

#77

Mark89er

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 10,223

udbrky or thac plz delete this tilting thread

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09-25-2010 , 06:09 PM

#78

xcesswee

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 433

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLJensa

No, no and no. Thats the formula for FE. Here you want to use a standard EV calc.

Spoiler:

It's the same thing. I just used the numbers he had in his example, which threw off the percentages. For example if you're getting 2:1 odds (call 1 to win 2) you must have have roughly 33 percent equity against that range in order to break even. To make it easier to calculate the true percentage u can just do this 1/(2+1), which gives you 33 percent. I understand that's also how you can calculate your fold equity, too.

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09-25-2010 , 06:10 PM

#79

Mark89er

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Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 10,223

FWIW, I CALLED A SHOVE AND HE HAD AA, AND I HAD KK, DOES THAT MAKE GETTING IT IN WTH KK SPEW NOW???

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09-25-2010 , 06:18 PM

#80

LOLpokermon

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,767

that was never the question

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09-25-2010 , 06:23 PM

#81

Mark89er

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Quote:

Originally Posted by WillRC

Is AK an overplayed hand?

While I can see every merit in 4 betting and 5 bet shoving AK, to me it seems very much like a semi bluff. You've got 2 blockers to their calling range, but you don't beat anything that's likely to call you. If you are called then you're 50/50 against QQ and AK, and losing to everything else.

So obviously, if you're the aggressor then your fold equity tips this in your favour. But if you 3 or 4 bet with AK, and then someone shoves over the top, the only thing that you're beating with a call is a bluff, so if you know the guy that's just shoved is only doing so with AA/KK/AK/QQ then what odds do you need to justify the call?

I will often fold AK to huge shoves pre, is this usually the wrong thing to do?

Edit: I guess that QQ falls into a similar category?

HOW THE **** IS THAT NOT THE QUESTION

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09-25-2010 , 06:27 PM

#82

LOLpokermon

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,767

op was asking if he has equity to call huge overshoves with ak and qq

nobody is ******ed enough to think that we're getting stacks in with kk as a semi-bluff. the fact that you don't is proof of that.

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09-25-2010 , 06:44 PM

#83

OLJensa

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 290

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcesswee

Yes of course, sorry, how embarrassing, just saw that your numbers where off and I'm so used to think EV=(cost/total pot built)...

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09-25-2010 , 06:47 PM

#84

Mark89er

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Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 10,223

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOLpokermon

but i got ak in and won vrs kk, sigh, wtf, rigged

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09-26-2010 , 04:01 AM

#85

WillRC

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 323

Quote:

Originally Posted by loose_passive

I think normally the 4bet would be bigger than 25bb but w/e

In your example we need 37.5% equity and even against just QQ+,AK we have ~39%. I'd need a pretty big reason not to get AK arrrr eeeeen pre 100bbs deep. And you're calling 75bb to win 125bb, I've got no idea where you got 82bb from?

Also the guy who's advocating folding AK 50bbs deep has to be a level right?

The 82 and 76 are you EV with AKs and AKo as an amount as opposed to a percentage. So yes, we're saying the same thing. The 76 should actually be a 78, I rounded the EV down to 38 instead of up to 39. So yes, I'm Agreeing with you. By with rake, AKo could arguably be a fold, that's the point I'm making.

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09-26-2010 , 04:30 AM

#86

crimsontide

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 484

gold, jerry! gold!

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