09-25-2010 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcesswee
Your math is all wrong. In your prev example, you said its 75 to win 135. To calculate the amount of equity you need. its 75/(75+135). So you need 35.7% equity in order to BE. AK vs QQ/AK has 39.59% equity. So even if his 5bet shove range is 100 percent QQ and AK you still have to call. But the reason you also 4bet is to collect the dead money in the middle when he 3bets wide.
No, no and no. Thats the formula for FE. Here you want to use a standard EV calc.

Spoiler:
200bb deep, equity=x, cost of calling=75bb >> x=37.5%
09-25-2010 , 04:54 PM
udbrky or thac plz delete this tilting thread
09-25-2010 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLJensa
No, no and no. Thats the formula for FE. Here you want to use a standard EV calc.

Spoiler:
200bb deep, equity=x, cost of calling=75bb >> x=37.5%
It's the same thing. I just used the numbers he had in his example, which threw off the percentages. For example if you're getting 2:1 odds (call 1 to win 2) you must have have roughly 33 percent equity against that range in order to break even. To make it easier to calculate the true percentage u can just do this 1/(2+1), which gives you 33 percent. I understand that's also how you can calculate your fold equity, too.
09-25-2010 , 06:10 PM
FWIW, I CALLED A SHOVE AND HE HAD AA, AND I HAD KK, DOES THAT MAKE GETTING IT IN WTH KK SPEW NOW???
09-25-2010 , 06:18 PM
that was never the question
09-25-2010 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillRC
Is AK an overplayed hand?

While I can see every merit in 4 betting and 5 bet shoving AK, to me it seems very much like a semi bluff. You've got 2 blockers to their calling range, but you don't beat anything that's likely to call you. If you are called then you're 50/50 against QQ and AK, and losing to everything else.

So obviously, if you're the aggressor then your fold equity tips this in your favour. But if you 3 or 4 bet with AK, and then someone shoves over the top, the only thing that you're beating with a call is a bluff, so if you know the guy that's just shoved is only doing so with AA/KK/AK/QQ then what odds do you need to justify the call?

I will often fold AK to huge shoves pre, is this usually the wrong thing to do?

Edit: I guess that QQ falls into a similar category?
HOW THE **** IS THAT NOT THE QUESTION
09-25-2010 , 06:27 PM
op was asking if he has equity to call huge overshoves with ak and qq

nobody is ******ed enough to think that we're getting stacks in with kk as a semi-bluff. the fact that you don't is proof of that.
09-25-2010 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcesswee
It's the same thing. I just used the numbers he had in his example, which threw off the percentages. For example if you're getting 2:1 odds (call 1 to win 2) you must have have roughly 33 percent equity against that range in order to break even. To make it easier to calculate the true percentage u can just do this 1/(2+1), which gives you 33 percent. I understand that's also how you can calculate your fold equity, too.
Yes of course, sorry, how embarrassing, just saw that your numbers where off and I'm so used to think EV=(cost/total pot built)...
09-25-2010 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLpokermon
op was asking if he has equity to call huge overshoves with ak and qq

nobody is ******ed enough to think that we're getting stacks in with kk as a semi-bluff. the fact that you don't is proof of that.
but i got ak in and won vrs kk, sigh, wtf, rigged
09-26-2010 , 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loose_passive
I think normally the 4bet would be bigger than 25bb but w/e

In your example we need 37.5% equity and even against just QQ+,AK we have ~39%. I'd need a pretty big reason not to get AK arrrr eeeeen pre 100bbs deep. And you're calling 75bb to win 125bb, I've got no idea where you got 82bb from?

Also the guy who's advocating folding AK 50bbs deep has to be a level right?
The 82 and 76 are you EV with AKs and AKo as an amount as opposed to a percentage. So yes, we're saying the same thing. The 76 should actually be a 78, I rounded the EV down to 38 instead of up to 39. So yes, I'm Agreeing with you. By with rake, AKo could arguably be a fold, that's the point I'm making.
09-26-2010 , 04:30 AM
gold, jerry! gold!

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