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Button vs BB, when to x/r? Button vs BB, when to x/r?

03-31-2024 , 06:59 PM
Ignition NL Holdem 0.05(BB)
HERO (101.4BBs)
UTG (122.8BBs) [VPIP: 25% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 18.2% | Hands: 28]
HJ (110.8BBs) [VPIP: 34.6% | PFR: 24.4% | AGG: 48.5% | Hands: 79]
CO (92.4BBs) [VPIP: 18.8% | PFR: 12.5% | AGG: 28.6% | Hands: 17]
BTN (186.2BBs) [VPIP: 27.9% | PFR: 23.3% | AGG: 45% | Flop Agg: 55.6% | Turn Agg: 42.9% | 3Bet: 6.7% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 45]
SB (88.8BBs) [VPIP: 22.7% | PFR: 19.3% | AGG: 44.4% | Hands: 122]

Dealt to Hero: K 6

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To 3BBs, SB Folds, HERO Calls 2BBs

Hero SPR on Flop: [15.38 effective]
Flop (6.4BBs): 6 9 6
HERO Checks, BTN Bets 2BBs (Rem. Stack: 181.2BBs), HERO Calls 2BBs (Rem. Stack: 96.4BBs)

Turn (10.4BBs): 6 9 6 Q
HERO Checks, BTN Bets 7.6BBs (Rem. Stack: 173.6BBs), HERO Raises To 22BBs (Rem. Stack: 74.4BBs), BTN Folds

Spoiler:

BTN shows: J K


Is this a good check raise here? What size would you use? trying not to be results oriented.

Preflop: A little loose against a 3x, but trying to play slightly wider to get used to harder spots.

Flop: I expect average micros player to fold too often to a x/r on this board b/c they will whiff a lot, so I decide to call. If they will call with overcards then x/r flop is fine but I don't think they will.

Turn: x/r is better against strong queens, overpairs, draws like JT/78. I think call/lead river is only better against bluffs w/ rivers that improve like Ax, and then marginal made hands like 9s, weak queens, tens, jacks. I think I sized too small, want to be able to jam the river I think, but lmk what size you'd use.

Last edited by mycorrhizae; 03-31-2024 at 07:00 PM. Reason: forgot hand history
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:14 PM
I don't defend this hand pf. On the turn what are you expecting to call you?

This is a standard nutty line especially at the lower stakes. I actually use it quite often to bluff because it just works so often.

If I CR I'm doing it on the flop. But mostly I would just look to check all three streets.
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:24 PM
Fold pre, it's not loose it is losing

you can be pretty aggressive with x/r with low to middling paired flops as BB in general, though technically vs. the 3x rfi here and on 66X you don't have as many 6X combos compared to if he had 2x or 2.5x
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:25 PM
Preflop is a bit worse than "a little loose". This hand is a pure fold against 2.5x, against 3x you are supposed to call less. No need to call trash hands in the BB to be put in tough spots lol. You have to call (or 3bet) Q4s, it will give you plenty of tough spots.

Learning and applying solid preflop ranges will improve your game a lot.

*If* a x/r will generate a ton of folds from hands which should call, I feel the correct exploit is then to x/r a lot rather than to call with a 6. They will overfold but they will also under-aggress on later streets, defeating (part of) the purpose of slowplaying.
+ as far as you know maybe villain is a big station. That's not too uncommon... And anyway they will never fold a 9 or an overpair.

Although calling is fine in theory I think at microstakes we should focus on learning to get max "direct" value.

I don't know if that's true, but I'm also wondering if x/c flop x/r turn is not seen as too strong and you might make him correctly fold a fairly strong hand.
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
I don't defend this hand pf. On the turn what are you expecting to call you?

This is a standard nutty line especially at the lower stakes. I actually use it quite often to bluff because it just works so often.

If I CR I'm doing it on the flop. But mostly I would just look to check all three streets.
I think JT or 78 mostly. A queen. Overpair. gutshots sometimes. A lot of those should fold but not always. Some won't bet river.

If they will bet with most of the hands that will call a river lead, AND bet a decent amount of bluffs then check/call 3 streets is fine but I expect a lot of giveups, and I expect them to call a bigger size than they will use themselves on a river bet.

If I'm wrong and they don't giveup on river with a lot of their bluffs then yea x/c is clearly better. Also if they fold queens to this checkraise.

Appreciate the input.

Last edited by mycorrhizae; 03-31-2024 at 07:52 PM.
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulgakov
Preflop is a bit worse than "a little loose". This hand is a pure fold against 2.5x, against 3x you are supposed to call less. No need to call trash hands in the BB to be put in tough spots lol. You have to call (or 3bet) Q4s, it will give you plenty of tough spots.

Learning and applying solid preflop ranges will improve your game a lot.
Yea I thought it was closer to in the range in the moment than it was. I get its pretty far out in retrospect and don't need to play this hand.
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulgakov
*If* a x/r will generate a ton of folds from hands which should call, I feel the correct exploit is then to x/r a lot rather than to call with a 6. They will overfold but they will also under-aggress on later streets, defeating (part of) the purpose of slowplaying.
+ as far as you know maybe villain is a big station. That's not too uncommon... And anyway they will never fold a 9 or an overpair.

Although calling is fine in theory I think at microstakes we should focus on learning to get max "direct" value.

I don't know if that's true, but I'm also wondering if x/c flop x/r turn is not seen as too strong and you might make him correctly fold a fairly strong hand.
If they are tight passive then yea x/r flop seems better. This player had bet a lot postflop in the few hands i'd seen and usually if they are close VPIP/PFR they will overfold flop x/r AND barrel turn a decent amount, esp if they hit a broadway card.

Could definitely be right that x/c flop x/r turn might look too strong. Idk what people's general experience is.
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycorrhizae
Could definitely be right that x/c flop x/r turn might look too strong. Idk what people's general experience is.
That's what Mr Spyutastic wrote also if I'm not mistaken, and I did not see his post before (was writing mine). Doesn't mean it's the truth, but maybe. Back in the time there was a "Baluga theorem" which was very effective and I feel it's still around somehow

https://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/theorems/baluga/
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote
03-31-2024 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulgakov
That's what Mr Spyutastic wrote also if I'm not mistaken, and I did not see his post before (was writing mine). Doesn't mean it's the truth, but maybe. Back in the time there was a "Baluga theorem" which was very effective and I feel it's still around somehow

https://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/theorems/baluga/
Good to know. I am struggling with how to balance "bet big and often when you have a strong hand" vs getting unwanted folds. My baseline on Ignition is to bet when you have a big hand, because people sometimes call wayyyy too wide, but idk where the line is on that. Esp when players will call down with ridiculous hands some % of the time.
Button vs BB, when to x/r? Quote

      
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