Big Slick Line Check in a 3bet pot - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Big Slick Line Check in a 3bet pot

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12-02-2019 , 12:49 AM

DooDooPoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,699

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BTN ($11.72) [VPIP: 11.4% | PFR: 6.5% | AGG: 30.9% | 3-Bet: 2.9% | Hands: 343]
SB ($13.45) [VPIP: 30.8% | PFR: 30.8% | AGG: 50% | 3-Bet: 20% | Hands: 13]
BB ($54.64) [VPIP: 33.3% | PFR: 33.3% | AGG: 100% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 12]
UTG ($11.38) [VPIP: 35.3% | PFR: 23.5% | AGG: 25.8% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 52]
HJ ($10.15) [VPIP: 17.6% | PFR: 11.8% | AGG: 44.4% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 18]
HERO ($10.53) [VPIP: 26.1% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 32.6% | 3-Bet: 11.1% | Hands: 145679]

Dealt to Hero: A

UTG Raises To $0.30, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $0.86, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Folds, UTG Calls $0.56

Hero SPR on Flop: [5.17 effective]
Flop ($1.87): A

UTG Checks, HERO Bets $0.60 (Rem. Stack: 9.07), UTG Calls $0.60 (Rem. Stack: 9.92)

Turn ($3.07): A

UTG Checks, HERO Bets $2.30 (Rem. Stack: 6.77), UTG Raises To $9.92 (allin), HERO ?

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12-02-2019 , 02:22 AM

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

wooow.

I would fold - Baluga theorem

u need ~35%

u are beat by 4 combos (AA,KK,55,A5s)
u tie with 4 combos (AK)

if he doesnt slowplay AA,KK, its 2 combos vs 4 combos - easy call

price seems to be just right - if we call, i think we are hoping to split

I cant see any other combo c/r OTT

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12-02-2019 , 02:31 AM

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,699

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubakkur2

Thoughts on checking turn? I didn't in game because I didn't think he had many 5x in his 3bet calling range preflop.

And I figured A5s to XR the flop.

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12-02-2019 , 04:42 AM

YouBetIcall

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,103

call, also, we don't have Kc, so that's good as well. You can't even be sure he is reg, he might be fish or reg-fish, he might do this with worse for value or some random spazz

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12-02-2019 , 05:17 AM

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

I prefer checking back flop
Turn once paired simplifies lot of combos in villain's 3bet call range - bet is the right play - we should be typically ahead a lot

Last edited by dubakkur2; 12-02-2019 at 05:22 AM.

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12-02-2019 , 05:28 AM

2019fish2019

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,412

Its a bit suspect when villain x/jams into our polarized range but what can you do.

I dont know whats there to discuss about this hand? You could check turn with low frequency to protect your weaker holdings and thats about it. Mainly do it with AA though

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12-02-2019 , 07:01 AM

andreicos

old hand

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 1,250

I'd bet bigger flop (we crush his range and can bet range for a larger size), at least 1/2 pot if not more.

Turn large bet OK. Very dry board, we block his calling range, but only an A is probably calling anyways so it makes sense to set up a river jam to get value from AQ, AJs, ATs. + We retain a large range advantage on a blank turn after a small bet otf.
There's 1 A5s combo. 1 combo of 55, 1 of AA, 1 of KK. Those are all hands he may very well not even have. I can't imagine a fold making any sense whatsoever.

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12-02-2019 , 07:29 AM

yasuo

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,154

villain probably never has a worse hand here but still we can't fold

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12-02-2019 , 07:34 AM

4cardfish

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 125

I don’t agree at all that villain has no bluffs here. It’s 10NL people show up with all kinds of hands. If he has AA or KK so be it. He shouldn’t have a 5 in his range (A5 should mostly 4bet pf). Again it’s 10NL. He might even have AQ and decide to go for it.

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12-02-2019 , 10:19 AM

#10

antneye

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7,119

I’ve been very foldy of late to turn raises but I can’t see a fold here. We are at the top of our range and villain should not have a hand that beats us as played. If you lose take a note.

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12-02-2019 , 10:57 AM

#11

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,786

This guy probably calls some garbage like 65s pre so I’m sure he’ll have some 5x

Don’t think I’m folding this though, AA/KK/55 are all pretty discounted and he could just be jamming top pair or random clubs because why not

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12-02-2019 , 11:24 AM

#12

andreicos

old hand

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 1,250

Wow, I ran a sim and GTO+ is folding 99.5% in Villains shoes otf vs a 1/3 pot bet. (when he has a decent 3b calling range)

If his range is some wide 10% fishy one, then it makes sense for him to shove turn with some AK, some Ax, Kx, to prevent us from running him over too much. And otf a 33% is the highest EV bet size, which I have no clue why since we crush him so hard, lol. Maybe because we should have some weaker suited Aces in our range which would prefer to use a smaller size+ blocking his calling range when we have something like AK

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12-02-2019 , 12:16 PM

#13

2019fish2019

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,412

Lol sounds like your ranges are a bit off

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12-02-2019 , 12:38 PM

#14

Nutsegger

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by antneye

I. We are at the top of our range and villain should not have a hand that beats us as played. If you lose take a note.

This

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12-02-2019 , 01:07 PM

#15

andreicos

old hand

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 1,250

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2019fish2019

Lol sounds like your ranges are a bit off

I used poker snowie recommendations and the solver recommends V folds 100%.

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12-02-2019 , 01:16 PM

#16

DooDooPoker

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,699

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitemares

Nailed it!

Guy had 65hh.

I think I can exploit fold here. Every time I've seen villain's get aggressive in a 3bet pot they have always had it.

I'd have to go through my data base but it is some absurdly high % that they are value shoving here. Even if we do give him a 5-10% spaz factor.

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12-02-2019 , 01:41 PM

#17

DooDooPoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 19,699

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutsegger

This

You are assuming Villain is good enough to bluff. He isn't.

This is 5x at least 90% of the time. No one shoves Ax here ever. Or Kxcc.

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12-02-2019 , 02:52 PM

#18

AngryDingo

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 346

Sure you can fold but that's getting into exploit land...

I'm personally of the opinion that you can't fold the top of your range in a 100bb cash game... Sure you get stacked when you have AK but you also get to stack him when you have the boat. Like it doesn't really matter what he has, you're way too high in your range to consider a fold imo

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12-02-2019 , 02:53 PM

#19

andreicos

old hand

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 1,250

You're being very results oriented here imo

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12-02-2019 , 03:07 PM

#20

whitemares

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

God that's so gross lol, he didn't even have the bdfd

I'm not so sure though, if he's bad enough to call both the 3bet and the flop bet then he could be bad enough to spazz with a worse ace. But tbf I wouldn't be surprised if data suggested that people rarely aren't nutted in spots like this though. 10nl blitz in general has a lot of passive play

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12-02-2019 , 03:07 PM

#21

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

theory - call
read - obv fold

pick ur poison

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12-02-2019 , 03:13 PM

#22

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitemares

God that's so gross lol, he didn't even have the bdfd

I'm not so sure though, if he's bad enough to call both the 3bet and the flop bet then he could be bad enough to spazz with a worse ace. But tbf I wouldn't be surprised if data suggested that people rarely aren't nutted in spots like this though. 10nl blitz in general has a lot of passive play

I regularly get sucked out or monkeyed out by these players in 3bet pots

Its amazing what they call 3bets with - their range is pretty much PP,any suited, any Ax - but all weird combos you cant even imagine!

If you assign snowie ranges or GM ranges for them, we will be fcked.

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12-02-2019 , 03:21 PM

#23

andreicos

old hand

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 1,250

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubakkur2

Right, I agree with you, their ranges are going to be wildly different than what anything would recommend.

I'm curious what you get when you filter for calling your stack off in 3b pots. You seem to believe these big bets are always the nuts, yet in my experience, something like this is still some air type hand enough of the time, that a call is profitable.

While every poker website has a slightly different player pool, I just don't believe that it can be that different.

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12-02-2019 , 03:27 PM

#24

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreicos

3bet pots the pop i play are pretty honest

I find them scared and clueless when they get 3bet or squeezed..large money at stake for them...

its villain dependent.. aggro fish usually shove FDs, gut shots or boards they think u r scared of

vs the majority they talk through their bet sizes and I listen

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12-02-2019 , 04:12 PM

#25

Ceres

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 3,891

I'm 3betting 9bb (a tiny quibble but I know I personally overcall vs anything less because it interrupts my autonomy - want to get max folds when we're lighter)

I'm betting flop 75%. Tons of Ax and Kx to extract value from and by the looks of it he's going to pay you off with his pair. Turn is a soul-sapper.

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