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Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice

08-03-2008 , 11:56 PM
I used to be a TAG sometimes slightly aggro player, but as bankroll increases I've decided to switch to a more aggro style to try and put pressure on opponents especially nitty players for all their chips or just play in a way that tilts them.. however the variance is insane, often I can be up 7, 8 BI's within a couple of hours and then lose a few BI's pretty easily. The things I've started to do are:

- donkbet flop into pf raise then 3bet
- lead into pf raiser almost all the time whether I have a hand or not
- make it standard to 2barrel(say 80% of the time) on my pf raises and never just give up after cbet is called on the flop
- raise hands like 97s from MP and 98o from CO(assuming I can play postflop well against opponents at particular table)
- if there's a raise/call before me and I'm in late position, almost always raise with hands like 76s 64s etc
- if there's a raise/reraise before me and I'm on BTN, if stacks are deep(say 200BB) raise with 76s type hands knowing they got high cards and I got position if they miss on the flop plus they might think I have high cards too.. going for the implied odds
- repping lines bigger than what I actually hold(let's say TPTK TPGK etc) and when villain calls 2 barrels, shove on the river when scare card hits
- playing back at good players constantly
- bet gutshots on the flop
- play FD like I got a set
- TPGK failing to improve on the turn, but rep as if I hit my 2pair etc
etc

When I do these things and some others I find that it can really put players on tilt and of course I also do the same things when I actually have a made, huge hand, and they pay me off with their whole stacks.. but like I said the variance is huge and it's actually affecting my mood because poker used to be relaxing I can play and chalk up a nice profit and feel good, now it seems a lot more risky and I don't find it as enjoyable because I never know if a session's going to produce a huge win or down a few BI's. I can see the potential of this style in running up the bankroll and moving up, but this is a lot to take.

Maybe I should just grind longer and build a larger roll before attempting this style.. any advice is appreciated.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 12:43 AM
Although some of the things you listed I don't really do (like donkbetting, although I do 2 barrel frequently its definitley not 80%), I can still relate to the variance issue. Especially when I am running bad, it sometimes makes me want to kill myself.

Currently it just seems like my timing is off on every move. It really tilts me when I get AA and get walked/ raise everyone folds when everybody has been 3betting me light, and even 4bet bluffing pretty frequently. I've really had to tighten up because I was losing so much playing a really LAG style.

Also, the running bad comes in so many different forms. Timing, getting coolered, taking bad beats, all are very frustrating but I think some are worse than others, at least for me. When timing is off I start to wonder if I'm making bad plays, which decreases my confidence as a result. Bad beats are easier for me to handle by themselves, but when combined with bad timing it can really lead to tilt. i.e. you play for an hour and are getting 3bet a ****load, can't seem to pick up a hand, then you squeeze aces and somebody calls and flops a set on you.

That brings me to another problem with the style, which isn't necessarily a problem but when running bad creates even more variance: Its really hard to fold strong hands because some people are just going to want to own you when they see how loose you are.

Just some quick thoughts I had, in Hawaii going out to dinner maybe I'll come post more later.

Edit: not meant to be a bad beat post or anything close to that

Last edited by ShipItUPS; 08-04-2008 at 12:44 AM. Reason: not a bad beat post or anything
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 12:53 AM
Donking into the PFR a lot is generally spewy without specific dynamics. Didn't read the rest.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipItUPS

That brings me to another problem with the style, which isn't necessarily a problem but when running bad creates even more variance: Its really hard to fold strong hands because some people are just going to want to own you when they see how loose you are.

Just some quick thoughts I had, in Hawaii going out to dinner maybe I'll come post more later.

Edit: not meant to be a bad beat post or anything close to that
Well lag or tag you're probably bound to lose more vs good players when you hold AA KK than 55 66. I've found most of my losing sessions to be when I get a bunch of big hole cards and getting it in on the flop vs 2pair or a set. I don't think against any type of opponent if you got AA and flop is K95 if you cbet and they raise you that you won't go all in or call their shove.

I was just analyzing all my starting hands and amazingly despite loosening up since I switched to LAG with hands like 97s 98o raising or 3bet in LP, and 33 44 calling 3bet if there's enough implied odds or 3betting myself with, these hands still show a huge profit. It's hands that I have NOT needed to loosen up to play strong with, eg. AA KK QQ and KJs etc that aren't showing the profit they should.

It seems the problem isn't laggy play itself, need to analyze the stats a bit more though..
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 01:33 AM
I commend you in your list creating abilities. However, a few of the things seem like they are long term spews.

You noted that some of the plays you always make when the situation arises. I think that if you are going to make those plays, ever, they should only be done infrequently at most, and with specific targets and deep reads.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuss

I was just analyzing all my starting hands and amazingly despite loosening up since I switched to LAG with hands like 97s 98o raising or 3bet in LP, and 33 44 calling 3bet if there's enough implied odds or 3betting myself with, these hands still show a huge profit. It's hands that I have NOT needed to loosen up to play strong with, eg. AA KK QQ and KJs etc that aren't showing the profit they should.

It seems the problem isn't laggy play itself, need to analyze the stats a bit more though..

What's your sample size for this analysis? If it's not very large, you could just be reading too much into variance.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 02:56 AM
You probably have huge sample size problems. Everyone, I've ever known who's played the style you describe ends up on a roller coaster around even. It doesn't work badly when you make some hands or suckout, but some sessions this won't happen and you'll spew badly.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 03:44 AM
As long as you have at least 50 BIs I wouldn't worry about it.

On a side note, the new huds have donk bet, fold to a raise when donking, etc.
Don't think your strategy is going to be gold when people catch on.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 07:01 AM
Nice list.

But you've still got a lot to learn http://www.brynkenney.com/bryn/content/view/34/72/
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 07:08 AM
some of what you describe is maniacal not good lag
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 07:12 AM
I think the things you mentioned can work in moderation if your image is right, but doing it all the time, especially at times where noone will give you any credit because you've been losing, will be pure spew.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 09:00 AM
you must be all in every 20 hands
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 10:17 AM
u forgot this point :

- folding midsets in rr potts

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...456&highlight=
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenTTT
u forgot this point :

- folding midsets in rr potts

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...456&highlight=
topset! deffo should be added to the list though
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdm13
some of what you describe is maniacal not good lag
...while other things are totally standard.
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote
08-04-2008 , 12:51 PM
wtf coming uo w/ this when playing nl4?
Bankroll, variance, laggy play, etc... just looking for some advice Quote

      
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