limper is a big big fish. The button is a regular 25/19 who isolates wide preflop. He also loves to pot control, only cbetting 48% and checking back turns frequently too. For this reason I take the unorthodox route and lead the flop to target the fish and prevent the button checking back.

On the river I cant make my mind up what to do...


BB: $199.70
UTG: $323.90
MP: $386.01
CO: $821.60
BTN: $400.00
Hero (SB): $677.10

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with 2 2
1 fold, MP calls $4, 1 fold, BTN raises to $16, Hero calls $14, 1 fold, MP calls $12

Flop: ($52.00) 9 A 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $40.00, MP folds, BTN calls $40

Turn: ($132.00) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $90.00, BTN calls $90

River: ($312.00) 3 (2 players)
hero.... (Villian has $250 left)

Just shove, if you bet less then that it will look too strong. He won't bet the river himself but I can def see him snapping you off with a couple of Ax hands. Depends on your image ofc.

I mean it's unlikely that you are bluffing but maybe you can get a crying call.

Not that bad of a river, is it?

Aside from the few A4s combos I don't really see how this changes anything (unless I'm missing something).

i think he would definitely call A9/A5s at the very least so you still have a value bet on the River since you lose to 6 set combos and 3 A4s while beating at least 11 combos of A9o/A9s/A5s

You think he calls A5 on the river? A2/A3/A5 looks like a pretty easy river fold imo on the river as villian.

jam river

don't see how this is a bad river. Even with a tightish image shoving here is fine.

Lol @ bad river. He never has a 4x in his range, shove I guess, although balance wise I wonder how often you ever show up with a bluff here.

Don't like leading here - I mean even people that check back a lot will cbet A92r pretty damn often. Also, there is a chance that the fish will lead, no? I would prefer to check/call this flop and consider leading the turn if the fish overcalls.

i think its a bad river too. i hate when the 4th wheel card shows up and i was going to try to go for value with ace-kicker or 2 pairs :/

Simple Clarkmeister Theorem spot: his calling range is wider than his betting range, so bet for value. Obviously, this can vary from person to person but as a default, MSNL players check back often i these spots. This isn't a bad river and you're only 'worried' about the occasional A4. If anything, he might be able to put you on some air and that you're desperately trying to represent the straight.

Additionally, if button knows you realize he's isolating the open limp often, then checking doesn't represent a range comprised of many AQ/AJ you might play this way. This means that he should realize that value betting two pair probably doesn't make sense against your river check.

You should also fold or reraise preflop. If button is isolating a fish with a wide range and rarely continuation betting, then your implied odds are certainly too low. Also, flop check-raise bluffs you may want to work in to make up for your implied odds situation might not get credit, given the fish is yet to act and you're blasting him out of the pot. These check-raises will also run into a strong range against rare continuation bets, likely meaning a strong range.

i don't disagree with anything you said, but a simple clarkmeister theorem spot huh? quite a mystery what that is.

I agree with everyone that its a definite bet on the river,,,but I don't jam,, I'd bet like $151 and get a crying call from his big ace

everything hinges on your donking range there, or his perception of it

I would probably check turn.

Btw, is it std for you to flat à 4x iso with small pairs from SB? Just curious cause it seems tough to make profit to me.

Why are you checking the turn?

@internet. Why? Because we look uber strong betting again?
@nirwanda. Not my norm no. Fish was just especially bad. Either way, I find i can play pp pretty profitably from the blinds anyway.

what bluffs do you bet (rep) on the turn?

If someone is isoing and checking back or giving up a lot, this is a pretty good spot to lead hands with good backdoor draws imo, so I personally could have likt TJdd type things. Not sure if I rep those though, which is part of the point of having them.

I think a value shove is pretty reasonable

I like lnternet's idea of checking turn as played. Since we shouldn't really have a bluff range here, I think it makes more sense to strengthen our turn checking range (especially since we could use the same logic babaar used to donk out weaker value hands such as AJ).

As played, river seems much closer to me than anyone else is saying. I think people are underestimating how many better hands villain can have--I'd say all A4 combos are possible from someone who "isolates wide preflop", and AA/99 are still in his range too imo. That, and the fact that he really shouldn't be calling you with hands that are essentially bluffcatchers here. Maybe we get lucky and he calls 2pair just because it's 2pair, but I give most midstakes players credit for thinking a bit deeper than that these days. Close spot.

I am in complete agreement. I'm also surprised no-one else seemed to consider this was a particulary close spot on the river.

Mossberg if you get the river the way I did do I take you would still shove and just hope villian feels like hero-ing?

Also @ Internet/Mossberg how important is it to protect our c/c range in this spot realistically? I mean it's not often I'm going to be donking 'A' high flops and how many hands is villian going to be betting on the turn trying to take me off of my Ax anyway?

I like the idea of checking the turn but moreso for other reasons. I think its unlikely I'm getting 3streets of value from a 1pair hand. He might fold a lot of Ax hands to my turn double barrel here but call a river bet when I check the turn. Plus most of the range im looking to get 3streets of value from by betting will bet the turn and river anyway.

Easy value shove, don't bet the flop.

It's a poker term. I think it's before 2010

I also explain it after the colon for people who might not be previous limit grinders. It refers to value betting rivers when calling ranges are wider than betting ranges when you check to your opponent.