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ATo Nl400 river check raise ATo Nl400 river check raise

02-08-2012 , 06:55 AM
Hi, this is my second post here I would be really appreciated if someone can answer

My pre flop call is really bad, vs tight villian CO range 24%, and vs 2 midstacks on blinds.

Villian has cbet on flop 78 on turn 58 and on river 68, x/r river 20%, small sample 2,5k hands only, WWSF 52, W$SD 45, we dont have dynamics he plays only nl400+, me nl200, He probably perceived me like ordinary reg.

Flop i turn are prolly standard, sometimes I could think about raising on turn.
On the river he knows that I have Ax most of the time and missed FD, so only way to just fold my bluff catcher is by x/r river so maybe I could call here?

I have a bit of problem on nl200 with general thinking in ranges, how to construct appropriate ranges for calling, raising,folding, I would like to know that someone has a good advice how to improve that?

I apologize for my bad english and thanks for answer!



    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11817572

    BB: $193.15 (48.3 bb)
    MP: $166.95 (41.7 bb)
    CO: $430.95 (107.7 bb)
    Hero (BTN): $425.50 (106.4 bb)
    SB: $150 (37.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with T A
    MP folds, CO raises to $9, Hero calls $9, 2 folds

    Flop: ($24) A 8 J (2 players)
    CO bets $16, Hero calls $16

    Turn: ($56) T (2 players)
    CO bets $32, Hero calls $32

    River: ($120) 6 (2 players)
    CO checks, Hero bets $92, CO raises to $373.95 and is all-in




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    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 06:58 AM
    How is pre-flop bad? I would fold as played, because this is a spot where people are not bluffing enough and thus weighted towards value hands.

    How to construct ranges? Play a lot of hands and pay attention
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 07:08 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bramsterdam
    How is pre-flop bad? I would fold as played, because this is a spot where people are not bluffing enough and thus weighted towards value hands.

    How to construct ranges? Play a lot of hands and pay attention
    My problem is grinding, just open 9 tables and play without deep thinking, I can't
    free onself.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 09:16 AM
    Less tables, more focus
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 09:16 AM
    I would fold here. I can't see him bluffing too often or shoving two lower pair...

    To your other question: force yourself to play less tables (perhaps only 2 at the very beginning) and try to think more about your play
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 02:30 PM
    I think villain expects you to check down on river and to him, your river betting range is more weighted towards missed draws. My main observations on this hand are:

    1) If villain was very strong, he would value bet river, because he doesn't expect a bet from you to c/r
    2) Villain has a hand that probably has some showdown value, that he is now turning into a bluff because your hand is underrepped.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 02:34 PM
    Don't really expect people to make this play for value or as a bluff really, so not too sure what to make of it. On balance I probably fold, because I just think he's more likely to barrel the river as a bluff than go for the c/r.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 05:15 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NeuroBy
    My problem is grinding, just open 9 tables and play without deep thinking, I can't
    free onself.
    Try 4 tabling without a HUD for a while. No internet browsing, TV, or distracting music and pay close attention even to hands you are not involved in. Fold river.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-08-2012 , 08:10 PM
    call, see QJss and take the monies.

    his turnbetszise is so weak.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-09-2012 , 01:07 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hardcashwhore
    call, see QJss and take the monies.
    well this is just one combo

    why would he c/r the River with that hand.. we dont really bet here for thin Value. We pobl. have just a good amount of bluffcatchers in our range that'll check back the River and some slowplayed stuff that will b/c obv.

    I dont think we beat his Valuerange (AJ/88+) but he could obv do this with a madehand as a bluff (KsTh f.e.).

    i'd bet the river much bigger and still fold to his jam
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-09-2012 , 04:01 PM
    I think purely because he can't expect us to VB often enough on the river I'm folding. Seems like a pretty straight forward fold.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-09-2012 , 04:22 PM
    Quote:
    I think purely because he can't expect us to VB often enough on the river I'm folding.
    That should make you wanna call
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-09-2012 , 04:52 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bramsterdam
    That should make you wanna call
    No. Meaning that because hero did bet, villain should put him on a stronger range and bluff. Without history, I'd expect villain to bet river if he was going to bluff. I don't expect villain to know hero's value and bluffing ranges well enough.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-09-2012 , 08:40 PM
    Quote:
    No. Meaning that because hero did bet, villain should put him on a stronger range and bluff.
    It depends, but this can be true.

    Quote:
    I'd expect villain to bet river if he was going to bluff.
    I agree, which is why I advocate a fold otr.

    Quote:
    I don't expect villain to know hero's value and bluffing ranges well enough.
    TWhat makes you say this? imo hero's line is standard and his range is therefore well defined
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-09-2012 , 10:47 PM
    fold, seems like an appropriate play with most of his value hands given the fact that he would barrel river with missed draw especially if there isn't much history between you two.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-13-2012 , 12:14 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tempest122
    Try 4 tabling without a HUD for a while. No internet browsing, TV, or distracting music and pay close attention even to hands you are not involved in. Fold river.
    I found sacrificing tables to allow myself to actually comfortably think through hands both improved my game and increased my winrate.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-13-2012 , 02:34 PM
    I think you are right at the top of your range here, maybe the second best hand you can have behind TT (?). I would call vs a good agg reg who can hand read.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-14-2012 , 02:38 AM
    Yeah, I think your range is capped here, it's unlikely you have a set since there aren't many of them and you haven't raised here, his range on the other hand has everything from nuts to air - Since he seems decent he has to be aware of this. That's what makes the hand hard IMO.

    Also, given the flush missed he has to think you are going to call a normal value bet a reasonable amount, and also check back flush draws that have picked up some showdown equity. So given no more info on the villain I think it's a fold, but only because people so often check raise bluff the river (and even though this is a good spot for it!).

    Good hand. Bet you wished you had checked the river back!
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-14-2012 , 09:19 AM
    call, seen so many spazztards c/shove here with busted draws.

    if he was tighter I would fold though, but his stats look aggro, cant say for sure though
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-15-2012 , 03:51 PM
    this is really not a spot to go for a checkraise..
    op has so much stuff in his range that happily checkst behind.. im confused.
    also villains betsizing is weird..
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-15-2012 , 05:58 PM
    this might be close- if you float 97s, Q9s and all combos of KQ always, then you're fine to b/f the river. However, if you only float KQhh, Q9hh, 97hh and raise KQss, Q9ss and 97ss, then you're nearing the top of your range with AT here. I figure most people are mostly raising sets on this texture (though I might be wrong about this), as well as AJ, so if this sounds like your range, then you might be vbetting AQ (12), AT (8), A6 (call it 5), AK (call it 2) and TT (call it 1) on this river, for a bet/call range of 4 combos and a bet/fold range of 27 combos, in which case you get just completely stomped.
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote
    02-15-2012 , 11:06 PM
    post moar
    ATo Nl400 river check raise Quote

          
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