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ATcc big draw ATcc big draw

08-03-2008 , 04:59 PM
So its been a while since ive played poker much.... gotta get back into it, my game is definitely shaky right now.

Sat down at the table <30 hands ago, villain seems like an average tag.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $52.75
UTG: $52.25
BTN: $147.50
Hero (SB): $50.30

Pre-Flop: A T dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3) 7 9 J (2 Players)
Hero bets $2, BB raises to $6, Hero raises to $21.... and will call a push obv.

This line is fine yea? Is there any other way to play it?

Thanks

Last edited by mooney; 08-03-2008 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Edit: i probably should have raised to $2 preflop....
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08-03-2008 , 05:01 PM
looks good to me. plus it's bvb so he can definately be screwing around with you a lot.
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08-03-2008 , 05:36 PM
to reduce variance I just check/call this flop. Maybe not the best, but I don't think you see a standard TAG fold here very often.
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08-03-2008 , 05:50 PM
Dont c/c this flop. Bet 2.75 and then 3bet/call it off.
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08-03-2008 , 05:57 PM
I like it I'd play it the same and call a shove all day.
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08-03-2008 , 08:18 PM
I like. However wouldn't smaller raise be more in place for times when we want to use this line as a bluff? Like to $17?
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08-03-2008 , 11:17 PM
your basically asking for a flip for your stack here with this line. You may have fold equity sometimes, however you can also get a fold with a c/c and a semibluff on the turn.
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08-04-2008 , 12:15 AM
I don't see your play as being more reasonable - If we do our best to get it in here now we are flipping in the worst case - ergo for this to be +EV we need to see only little amount of folds. However if turn bricks we just cut our equity severly and if we hit on turn we might not get money from villain. Let's say we check, villain bets 2.5 we call pot is 8$ on turn and now what? What if we bet and get raised on turn? Or get called and river bricks too? Sounds like a lot of headache that can be avoided by the line OP took.

I mean if we have specific villain it might be better play but as a stanadard play doing best to get it in on flop is IMO best. We will see folds to our reraise often enough to make this +++EV.
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08-04-2008 , 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathduck
your basically asking for a flip for your stack here with this line. You may have fold equity sometimes, however you can also get a fold with a c/c and a semibluff on the turn.
please.. this line is absolutely fine. you have lots of fold equity here which is where you make your money. if they are calling u every time u are going appx 50-50 which is fine because u Break Even hitting flushes str8s and your over pairs.

If you get them to fold even 1/4 times this play becomes +EV provided u are always 50-50.

but hey even if ur not 50-50 u could hit that sucka with the flush and straight and take his stack
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08-04-2008 , 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathduck
your basically asking for a flip for your stack here with this line. You may have fold equity sometimes, however you can also get a fold with a c/c and a semibluff on the turn.
the thing with c/c flop and donking turn is you arent repping many hands.
therefore villain will think you are FOS and call you anyway.

furthermore will villain only pay us off if we hit the flush (and probably not for his whole stack) and we dont get that much money if we hit our straight.
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08-04-2008 , 08:25 AM
I think u have really decent fold equity here and the line looks very good to me
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08-04-2008 , 08:27 AM
sucks if villians flats our 3-bet. i might just shove.
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08-04-2008 , 10:11 AM
I'd make it $16 instead of $21. This was you can profitably do this with bluffs (occasionally) and you can also get away from the hand on the turn if he peels one off and it bricks.

I think it also gives him more incentive to shove with a hand we're a favorite over (thinking he has FE).
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08-04-2008 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoe Lace
I'd make it $16 instead of $21. This was you can profitably do this with bluffs (occasionally) and you can also get away from the hand on the turn if he peels one off and it bricks.

I think it also gives him more incentive to shove with a hand we're a favorite over (thinking he has FE).
Quote:
Originally Posted by scallop
sucks if villians flats our 3-bet. i might just shove.
2.5x his bet or shove, I reckon. 2.5x saves money on our future bluffs and when he just flats and the turn bricks; shoving hopefully gets some "FU buddy" calls from JT or whatevs.
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08-04-2008 , 02:31 PM
I think its better off to complete/call with this speculation hand. u want to see the flop cheap, even if u raise here its bad playing him OOP, though u have the draw, notice that u push all in here u only have a bit more than half the chance to win, and it seems like villain already have some marginal made hands while u have a draw, without any other things that would bring u to showdown, shoving here is def -EV since u only have a drawing value, u have some implied odds, but not enough for the pot vs yr shove ratio if he calls, lol.

good luck playing!
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08-04-2008 , 02:39 PM
meh I prefer a slightly smaller 3 bet, which would leave a turnshove in case he's flatting our bet. Might also induce him to do some spastic flop shove w/ whatever...

like ~17-18$ (17--> pot ~36$ w/ 35$ behind)... But doesn't really matter tbh, fine as played I guess.
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08-04-2008 , 02:43 PM
c/c flop is super bad. I think that given your ace is live a decent amount of the time as well as that small % of time he has lower clubs we can justify getting in. calling and seeing a turn is not a terrible choice as its a pretty easy spot for you to play but given you are OOP its more difficult to extract as he'll shut down/pot control with most hands on a 3flush board
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