Another QQs in 3b pot - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Another QQs in 3b pot

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09-09-2013 , 12:22 PM

Thuen88

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,329

Villain was playing 25/13 with 40% fold to 3b. 45% fold to cb. 0% 4b range over 600 hands.

I didn`t feel i could get 3 streets of value from these positions, so i decided to ch back the turn and call or bet the river.

Thoughts ?

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($50)
SB ($58.07)
BB ($40)
UTG ($86.40)
UTG+1 ($50)
MP1 ($155.12)
MP2 ($47.40)
Hero (MP3) ($50)
CO ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q

, Q

UTG raises $1.50, 2 folds, MP2 calls $1.50, Hero raises $6, 5 folds, MP2 calls $4.50

Flop: ($14.25) 5

, 4

, J

(2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $6.62, MP2 calls $6.62

Turn: ($27.49) 4

(2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: ($27.49) 3

(2 players)
MP2 bets $18.50, Hero calls $18.50

Total pot: $64.49

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09-09-2013 , 11:42 PM

TJ Eckleburg12

Only Gives Out Winners

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 16,035

I think bet the turn for value, ship river most of the time.

Given that you checked the turn, it's *okay* as long as you call the river.

It just sucks when you give a free river to an A or a K and he cracks you with AK

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09-10-2013 , 07:48 AM

paixths10

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10

u ve posted a similar hand where u bet all the way. wouldnt be bad here + villain looks more fishy and has a bit lower fold vs 3b. picking from the 2 hands i would pick this to get it in.

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09-10-2013 , 08:00 AM

Pokie

banned

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5,098

Raise less pre-flop.

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09-10-2013 , 08:35 AM

LastTrader

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 754

If you dont bet when bottom card pairs, you should nt bet any turn. Is that what you do?

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09-10-2013 , 08:53 AM

Pokie

banned

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5,098

Quote:

Originally Posted by LastTrader

If you dont bet when bottom card pairs, you should nt bet any turn. Is that what you do?

What?

This is so wrong since when the bottom card pairs on the turn, it is perceived as 'not changing anything'. Hence we would therefore give up with our bluffs when this happens and only bet for value, and since the villain knows this, we need to do the complete opposite. At the very least, we should be checking both our air and our value hands in order to extract value on the river or turn if the villain likes to float and stab.

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09-10-2013 , 01:21 PM

jaypatel33

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,801

I don't like the way you played this.

What is villain's 3bet stat? I doubt he is flatting AA/KK, and given his low fold3bet stat, his range is pretty wide here. I would bet the turn and proabably bet the river given his fishyness. I wouldn't be too worried about him having JJ, he probably would have raised the flop, or he may have reriased your turn bet.

Pokie, whats wrong with the bet sizing, standard 3x+1, no?

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09-11-2013 , 08:27 AM

Pokie

banned

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5,098

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypatel33

Pokie, whats wrong with the bet sizing, standard 3x+1, no?

Raise 3x the open raiser's amount, (therefore $4.50), +1 for the caller, so this is $4.50 + $0.50 = $5.00.

You and the OP are trying to do (3+1)x which would indeed give you (3+1) x $1.50 = $6.00

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09-11-2013 , 10:38 AM

jaypatel33

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokie

Raise 3x the open raiser's amount, (therefore $4.50), +1 for the caller, so this is $4.50 + $0.50 = $5.00.

You and the OP are trying to do (3+1)x which would indeed give you (3+1) x $1.50 = $6.00

Sorry Pokie, I incorrectly wrote out the algebra. But anyways, why is $5 better than $6? If I had to guess, is it that the smaller amount would achieve the same number of folds, therefore risking less, and the 3bet not having to work as frequently.

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09-11-2013 , 12:32 PM

#10

Brearmdreb

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 56

12bb pre is standard. By 3-betting to 10bb vs 2 players we're gonna go 3way to the pot too often for our liking, especially with the opener's fold v 3-b being what it is.

I like your play, you're giving the villain an opportunity to bluff the river as he should only be afraid of QQ/KK/AA calling and you'd 2-barrel these most of the time. That's assuming he's a thinking player of course. I don't think you'd gain anything by betting the turn, except maybe folding out AK, which is a 6-outer anyway.

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09-11-2013 , 05:20 PM

#11

Pokie

banned

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5,098

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brearmdreb

12bb pre is standard. By 3-betting to 10bb vs 2 players we're gonna go 3way to the pot too often for our liking, especially with the opener's fold v 3-b being what it is.

Yeah, and this is what we want. Given that these players are likely to 4bet AA and KK pre-flop, then they will only call our 3bet with worse hands than QQ, hence giving us big value. We do not want them folding here or we made a mistake.

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09-11-2013 , 07:17 PM

#12

WWWWWWHAT?OOOOO K

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 470

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokie

Raise less pre-flop.

i dont really bother here, just x4 the open bet. what the +ev with the "5$" method??

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09-11-2013 , 07:22 PM

#13

King Viktor

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,362

$6 is standard here and far better than 5. put your anti troll shields up kiddies

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09-11-2013 , 07:24 PM

#14

FinkPloyd

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 679

looks fine to me

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09-11-2013 , 08:20 PM

#15

Pokie

banned

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5,098

Raising to $5 for value, also means that we can get away with cheaper 3bet bluffs...

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