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AK OOP multiway AK OOP multiway

06-23-2010 , 09:59 AM
CO is 10/4/3.0, rest don't really matter.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($1.60)
MP ($3.81)
CO ($4.27)
Button ($0.12)
Hero (SB) ($4.77)
BB ($1.07)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.11, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10

Standard raise, called by 4 players.

Flop: ($0.50) 2, 5, 9 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.22, Hero calls $0.22, UTG calls $0.22, 1 fold

Crappy flop, decided to check since there are 3 people to act after me. CO bets (could have any pocket pair and bets since everyone checked and he might be ahead; could have hit a set too), I call given the pot odds.

Turn: ($1.16) A (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $0.48, Hero calls $0.48, UTG calls $0.48

Good turn for me, but I check since I'm still OOP with 2 peeps acting after me. Betting here would also reveal my hand pretty clearly, given the check on the flop. CO bets about same % of the pot, I call and so does the UTG. Given the same bet, I'm even more inclined to the pocket pair, less on the set.

River: ($2.60) 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $3.45 (All-In), Hero ??

Ugly river, all someone needs is a 4 for the nuts. Can't really bet here, too many hands beat me at this point. CO goes all-in, going to about 150% of the pot. He might have pocket fours, then again he still might have a set and figured he bet too little on the turn.

Then again, it might've all been just a flush draw bluffed on the river, given his stats, prolly KQ, AJ or AQ of spades. Question is, what would you do?

P.S.: I still have UTG after me, so he might have a 4 (although it looks like he's the one chasing the flush).

Last edited by aliens; 06-23-2010 at 10:15 AM.
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 10:06 AM
the villain is pretty tight and is betting into you every street into a multi way pot. i would probably just fold to the flop bet because people play pretty straight forward in multiway pots. If I called the flop I would probably bet fold like 1/2 pot on the turn but if you are going to take the c/c line I almost feel like you have to call the river if you call the turn because you pretty much know it is coming. The overbet hurts that. Overall this looks a lot like a set and folding the flop would be best. You said the call was for pot odds but if villains has what he/she is repping you are drawing dead
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 10:14 AM
Flop bet gave me good pot odds to hit an ace or a king just in case he had like tens or jacks. But yeah I prolly should've bet turn.
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliens
Flop bet gave me good pot odds to hit an ace or a king just in case he had like tens or jacks. But yeah I prolly should've bet turn.
If the villain is limp calling and betting into a multiway pot I would say 1010 JJ are the bottom of the villains range as well as a small part of it. Even against the bottom of the villains you are drawing to 6 outs and will probably face heat on the turn. so yea the odds are pretty good that he/she is offering but against his/her range they are not enough to justify a call imo
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 10:51 AM
Flop check is ok, it's a textbook bad spot to cbet, but not only because of the family pot, but also (and more important) because the board totally hits the pf calling range of villains and misses your perceived one (of course that last thing doesn't matter at 2NL, lol). When nitty villain bet he has something and no, you don't have odds to hit overs (7:1 to hit when you're getting 3:1) that might not even be good. Easy fold on the flop imo.
As played you must bet for value, since most of villain's range consists of overpairs that might peel that turn bet (not because they think you're bluffing the perfect scare card, but because it's 2NL and that's what they do, they call). But since he is a nit, if he raises your turn bet you HAVE to fold because now his range would be polarized between monsters (sets) and bluffs, but he's never bluffing in this imaginary spot. But after checking the turn you have to call because villain still might think his hand is good.
Again, river is a b/f, but I wouldn't call villain's shove because it's very unlikely that a nit is vbetting anything worse than a pair of aces with an ace on the board, he would be very happy to go to SD with TT, JJ. The line you took would work great vs an aggressive player in a HU pot, but it's very bad vs a nit in a MW pot.
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 10:54 AM
Bet more preflop.....4x + 2 per limper =14 and then I'd add some more for having to play out of the SB....i.e. I'd make it like 17 or so.......

On the flop there are only 5 cards you want to see (Ks is not one of them)...that is about 10 percent probability and you aren't closing the action......just fold the flop
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsiciliano
Flop check is ok, it's a textbook bad spot to cbet, but not only because of the family pot, but also (and more important) because the board totally hits the pf calling range of villains and misses your perceived one (of course that last thing doesn't matter at 2NL, lol). When nitty villain bet he has something and no, you don't have odds to hit overs (7:1 to hit when you're getting 3:1) that might not even be good. Easy fold on the flop imo.
As played you must bet for value, since most of villain's range consists of overpairs that might peel that turn bet (not because they think you're bluffing the perfect scare card, but because it's 2NL and that's what they do, they call). But since he is a nit, if he raises your turn bet you HAVE to fold because now his range would be polarized between monsters (sets) and bluffs, but he's never bluffing in this imaginary spot. But after checking the turn you have to call because villain still might think his hand is good.
Again, river is a b/f, but I wouldn't call villain's shove because it's very unlikely that a nit is vbetting anything worse than a pair of aces with an ace on the board, he would be very happy to go to SD with TT, JJ. The line you took would work great vs an aggressive player in a HU pot, but it's very bad vs a nit in a MW pot.
I agree I should've bet for value, it's just the MW pots I'm not used to. Also, you said it's 7:1 to hit one of my overs. However there are still 3 kings and 3 aces, so 6 cards would give me an overpair. There's still a turn and a river, so that's about 24% (with the standard x4 multiplier). That would more likely be 3:1 odds. Might be a bit less since I wouldn't like the king of spades, which, without it, would give me 4:1 (and better implied odds if CO has TT-QQ).

P.S.: I am talking about the flop pot odds.

Last edited by aliens; 06-23-2010 at 11:25 AM.
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 11:14 AM
fold river
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wishiewish
fold river
Any suggestions on the flop/turn play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by borges
Bet more preflop.....4x + 2 per limper =14 and then I'd add some more for having to play out of the SB....i.e. I'd make it like 17 or so.......

On the flop there are only 5 cards you want to see (Ks is not one of them)...that is about 10 percent probability and you aren't closing the action......just fold the flop
Isn't it 20%? Am I doing it wrong?
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliens
I agree I should've bet for value, it's just the MW pots I'm not used to. However, you said it's 7:1 to hit one of my overs. However there are still 3 kings and 3 aces, so 6 cards would give me an overpair. There's still a turn and a river, so that's about 24% (with the standard x4 multiplier). That would more likely be 3:1 odds. Might be a bit less since I wouldn't like the king of spades, which, without it, would give me 4:1 (and better implied odds if CO has TT-QQ).

P.S.: I am talking about the flop pot odds.

That's your equity you're talking about. If you go AI on the flop, you have 24% equity, hot-and cold. However, if you call flop you'll probably face another bet on the turn and maybe even another one on the river. You have to count that in your calculations. You would only be right if you were 100% sure villain is done betting (very unlikely)
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 11:30 AM
Flop is fine, i would bet it myself with the intention of barrelling/improving but it is still ok to c/c small bet with AsKx.
I would lead the turn or ship after the check.
As played, i am folding river.
AK OOP multiway Quote
06-23-2010 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wishiewish
Flop is fine, i would bet it myself with the intention of barrelling/improving but it is still ok to c/c small bet with AsKx.
I would lead the turn or ship after the check.
As played, i am folding river.
Definitely should've bet something on the turn, just to see where everyone is at. Thanks Wishie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsiciliano
That's your equity you're talking about. If you go AI on the flop, you have 24% equity, hot-and cold. However, if you call flop you'll probably face another bet on the turn and maybe even another one on the river. You have to count that in your calculations. You would only be right if you were 100% sure villain is done betting (very unlikely)
I'm pretty sure those are implied odds you are talking about. My equity is 24% to an unimproved pocket pair, my pot odds are about 30% after the CO bet, 25% if I count the UTG calling (optimistic I know).

Last edited by aliens; 06-23-2010 at 11:42 AM.
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