88 flops overpair in a 3bet pot 2000NL - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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88 flops overpair in a 3bet pot 2000NL

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07-01-2008 , 10:02 AM

Huggy

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $1,728.50
SB: $2,307.50

Pre-Flop: 8

dealt to Hero (BB)
SB raises to $30, Hero raises to $105, SB calls $75

Flop: ($210) 6

(2 Players)
Hero bets $155, SB raises to $419, Hero ???

Not much history except I have seen villain bluff raise when he thinks I'm weak. So how do I deal with the bluff part of his range here do I just call? in which case I feel like villain is unlikely to bluff again do I small 3 bet and call it off or just shove??

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07-01-2008 , 12:55 PM

WOW UR BAD

banned

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 141

100bbs this is obv pretty easy if hes been bluff raising alot but deepish...I really hate 3 betting small then folding, but then again i dont like just 3 betting then calling off either with dead 88. I guess it depends of if u think he would actualy follow thru with a bluff on the turn as well, if he wouldnt I like just a call and evaluating turn action. If he would then i dunno maybe a fold? i dunno V interesting spot semi deep

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07-01-2008 , 02:45 PM

early325

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,192

i dont like a small 3bet b/c i dont think it will induce a bluff shove very often.

you cant fold so i guess you should call and then re-eval the turn..although calling here puts your hand face-up so he'll rep a ton of turns. interesting spot but i think i call and c/c most turns

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07-01-2008 , 02:56 PM

Professor4Poker

adept

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 809

does this situation point to the fact that maybe u shouldn't 3bet 88 deepish, since we can catch the flop we want and still don't know what to do?

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07-01-2008 , 03:09 PM

Huggy

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

I obviously don't 3 bet 88 100% of the time however I had been pretty quite and felt that here was a great spot to 3 bet them.

I do feel as if a small 3 bet will rarely induce many 4 bet bluffs with 2 overs, but if i call here my hand looks very strong and I feel that villain will likewise rarely bluff again.

So when I small 3 bet here I can get villain to fold all of his overs, when i call i give free cards BUT i do give myself a chance to get away from it or save a lot of money if villain has a hand such as 99.

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07-01-2008 , 03:15 PM

Professor4Poker

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 809

well, i mean, if villian isn't going to 4bet bluff, but is bluffraising quite often... then u should def r/f....if u are small 3betting the nuts here also, then it seems good.

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07-01-2008 , 03:19 PM

Huggy

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

I play AA exactly the same here as 88 is very similar to AA in regards to extracting value from bluffs and giving free cards.

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07-01-2008 , 03:48 PM

Theoretical

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 156

I think this hand kind of illustrates why it's bad to 3bet a hand like 88 preflop 200bb deep against a tricky aggressive opponent. Having said that, as long as you are correctly balancing your ranges, it really shouldn't matter what you do in this spot. Since we can assume that he's making a lot of these types of smallish bluffs in position, the main concern should lie in your current read of the metagame situation. If you think he can be leveled into a 4bet shove with overs or a pair plus draw, and you would also play AA+ this way, then there's nothing wrong with a small 3 bet here.

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07-01-2008 , 05:57 PM

NemoInDeniaL

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretical

This

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07-01-2008 , 07:23 PM

#10

Red Shell

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 977

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

I obviously don't 3 bet 88 100% of the time however I had been pretty quite and felt that here was a great spot to 3 bet them.

gonna do you post in bits and pieces cause i dont really agree with much that you wrote. if you've been quite then your expecting more folds than you usually should, sure 88 is good back up but your turning something that flops really solid into a guessing game if he calls.

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07-01-2008 , 07:24 PM

#11

Red Shell

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 977

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

I do feel as if a small 3 bet will rarely induce many 4 bet bluffs with 2 overs, but if i call here my hand looks very strong and I feel that villain will likewise rarely bluff again.

doesnt this make the hand fairly obv?

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07-01-2008 , 07:31 PM

#12

Red Shell

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 977

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

I play AA exactly the same here as 88 is very similar to AA in regards to extracting value from bluffs and giving free cards.

this isnt right imo, AA and 88 aren't really similar and def dont have the same value in regards to extracting from bluffs/free cards. i may well be wrong, but if someones bluffin with overs, which you suggest he might be i dont see how aa=88. if im wrong please explain.

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07-01-2008 , 07:35 PM

#13

Red Shell

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 977

just to add, im glad you posted here and all but to be honest most of the players here arent capable of offering you the best line, maybe someone like selector and scanison+ a few others, no offense and all.

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07-01-2008 , 07:38 PM

#14

Red Shell

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 977

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor4Poker

well, i mean, if villian isn't going to 4bet bluff, but is bluffraising quite often... then u should def r/f....if u are small 3betting the nuts here also, then it seems good.

i think this isnt great.

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07-01-2008 , 08:16 PM

#15

blah99

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Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 649

id call flop, c/c any non 7/2 turn.

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07-02-2008 , 12:06 AM

#16

Professor4Poker

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 809

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Shell

i think this isnt great.

Why? OP said that if he calls villain isn't putting more money in bluffing, and will bet if villain has/makes the best hand. So, if that's the case, a 3bet cannot be bad. The only alternative line is to call and fold to any future bets UI... idk, maybe that's better

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07-02-2008 , 12:32 AM

#17

eX3cution

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,381

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretical

If you think he can be leveled into a 4bet shove with overs or a pair plus draw, and you would also play AA+ this way, then there's nothing wrong with a small 3 bet here.

The way that he'd actually play AA+ here is completely irrelevant. What matters is how villain thinks he'd play AA+.

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07-02-2008 , 03:01 AM

#18

gimmetheloot

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,371

call here is pretty atrocious imo...seriously, like, every single card in the deck is scary.
A,2,3,4,5,6,7,9-K....

I think you are pretty much required to make it like, 725 or soemthing, or fold. I dunno what you should do if you 3b and he shoves, but the answer is v likely to fold.

edit to add:
also, if hes tough and tricky and either 1) bets like 350-425 on the turn, or 2) checks back the turn and fires big on the river...
if you were in position calling would be fine. OOP NOOOOOOOO

Last edited by gimmetheloot; 07-02-2008 at 03:29 AM.

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07-02-2008 , 01:04 PM

#19

Red Shell

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 977

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor4Poker

yeah thats what i was thinking though i dont think 3betting is good.

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07-02-2008 , 03:01 PM

#20

Huggy

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmetheloot

Results, I did this and he folded

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