I’ve started to play 6 max Zoom at NL10. I love that I can play very short session if I don’t have much time and the fact that I don’t have to table select. But I hate the fact that I’m very often playing these “1st hand” spots readless. I wonder if you could give me some guidelines of how to play against random players in certain spots? And maybe enlighten me a bit about the tightness of the general Zoom population? Here are a couple of examples:

1. 6maxZoomNL10. Full stacks. 1st hand. UTG raises to 0.30. Hero (UTG+1) raises to 0.90 with JJ. Folded to UTG who min raises to 1.80.

What do you do? What if your hand was QQ or AK instead?
If you elect to just call. What do you do after the flop of undercards/paired board if he a) checks b) bets?

2. 6maxZoomNL10. Full stacks. 1st hand. Folded to Hero (BTN) who raises to 0.30 with AQ. Folded to BB who raises to 0.90. Hero raises to 2.25. BB raises to 3.25.

What do you do? What if your hand was AK or JJ instead? If you elect to call, what is your plan after the flop?

What if we were in the CO or SB (or some other position) instead of BTN?

Whilst these spots come up frequently, you need to assign a conservative range for a reasonable 10NL player. Generally, I will make an assumption that a regular 10NL player (non-mobile/tablet) is playing a tight early position range and a tight 4betting range.

Therefore, I think you should be calling an EP raise with JJ from MP+1 vs unknown, as when you 3B you can expect him to only continue with those hands that have you crushed.

Likewise, 4Betting an unknown from BTN is speculative at best. Just call AQ IP and assess flop.

There are other factors you can use to assess a player's skill. E.g stack size, bet sizing tells, number of tables, whether they are on mobile/tablet ect. In the absence of these tells, just assume a tight range at 10NL.

Never 3bet a hand that can't call 4bet/4bet shove, it's better to call JJ in that spot preflop and you'll have pretty good equity vs your avg villain opening range. Same goes for AK QQ if you are not willing to play for stacks preflop dont 3bet with those hands, call preflop and you have their range "crushed".

AQo in that spot again never 4bet if you inted to fold to 5bet shove. i'd argue for a 4bet shove allin or you simply call and play IP a 3bet pot, folding is always an option too. Try out all 3 and see what works best vs unknowns than take that line most of the time.

That's definitely untrue. There are plenty of hands you can 3bet for value and fold to a 4bet.

okey name a couple vs a unknown UTG range on NL10 zoom

Thanks for the quick replies!

So in the first hand when we just call with JJ, what would you suggest post flop? Sets are always great and easy to play IP, but if we don’t hit, what then? Maybe float the flop regardless of the structure and bet the turn if checked to us and fold to a second barrel even if there are no overcards? And maybe just give up flop straight away if A or K hits?

In the second hand if we just call, what do we do post flop if we hit? Just play small ball and call all the way? AQ is tricky to play since if we hit our A, he could have AK and if the flop (or any other street) comes with a J or a T, we are guessing again if he has AJ or AT, both of which merit a raise against a late position bet. So small balling again to the end?

And now that I’m at it, I’ll just throw in a third question. AK. Again 6maxZoomNL10. 1st hand. Hero in UTG+1 bets 0.30 with AK. Folded to the BTN who raises to 0.90. SB and BB fold. What do we do? If we had the position we’d probably call? But is there any value in playing AK OOP here?

AKQ will be nasty cards for your JJ on the flop, if villain bets you have easy fold imho you loose only 3BB without getting into any furteher ugly spots, if he checks, you have an easy bet he will give you credit alot for calling UTG+1 on AKQ high boards so you will pick it down alot, if you flop and OP and he bets i'd argue for a raise i think alot of uknowns will cbet AK/AQ and fold to a raise, if they have OP aswell they will shut down alot too, and you can get to the showdown cheap.

AQ hand is tricky, i'm really not in favour of calling but if you do call and hit that A, i'd say raise, it's possible villain is raising Ax from BB to defend vs steal, and he will let go alot, if he 3bets u on flop, well vs unknown you jsut have to asume that you are beat, calling all the way i dont know, i really dont like that line so much as you are completly clueless till river what opponent holds.

With AK you are OOP is tough indeed, i gues you have to decide to fold or 4bet shove, i think you opponents 3betting rage is pretty tight TT-AA AK maybe AQs, if you shove you avoid playing OOP and putting yourself in tough spots postflop and you opponent doesnt have pot odds to call with TT-QQ AK so you will be getting a ton of folds and even if you do get called you still have good equity vs alot of the hands. I like to stick it in with AKs because AKs likes to see 5 cards.

I'm not sure what is the best option, but i'm really not the fan of calling and being in the dark oop. So i'd be in favour of 4bet/4bet shove vs call/fold doesnt make sence that we fold AK to 3bet either

My advice is generally to ignore everything sovo says.

I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but so much of what you say is really terrible. Don't just jam AKs over a 3-bet.

Because you dont agree with smthign doesnt mean it's bad. And putting yourself in tough spots is not a way to go specially not against unknows. Which we are dealing with here.

So what would you do in these spots?

Jamming a full stack over a 3-bet is pretty bad because you eliminate having a 4-bet bluff range (or it's ridiculously expensive to do) and you reduce the game to coolers. This is really basic stuff.

Come on dude 4bet bluff range vs unknown no history ? where are you getting this from?
what are you talking about LOL your talking nonsence here. This spot is vs unknown where we are holding AKs or even AKo, our unknown villain's range is TT+ AQ+(or just AK)we are 42:58 and our opponent has no pot odds to call for a flip or what so ever, not to mention we can do the same with AA and KK to avoid playing oop in tough spots vs unknown. We simply take the pot down. This is simple poker.

It doesn't matter if we have a 4-bet bluff range or not. It matters that we can be perceived to have one. Which we never do if we jam.

All you do is allow villain to play close to perfect by calling off with the top of his range that does well against your jamming hands.

Maybe the fact that 90% of your posts result in someone telling you you're terrible should be an indicator that you're not a lone genius inexplicably playing 10nl, but that you're doing a whole bunch of nonsensical ****.

That just sounds ridiculous, UTG 4bet bluff range WTF are you bluffing with UTG ? 72o and than 4betting ? tell me what hands do you turn into 4bet bluffs vs unknowns from UTG LOL. I'd really like to hear that.

A5s.

nice, and i as unknown am 3betting only hands that i dont intend to fold with to a 4bet, QQ+ AK, and i own you every time you make that ridiculous bluff as UTG player.
So you are just making your 4bet range weaker UTG because of what ? so that i can own you ? or is this another sick balancing theory.

.

TWhelan are you another balancing master ?

Okay. How about we just chill and get back to these hands. You both make good points, so let's talk about those some more and not bash each other.

I have to agree with blades on 4bet jamming the AK in this example (unless convinced otherwise, of course). The pot is only 1.35 and we're risking 9.70 to win it uncontested. And if that QQ+ AK+ range sovo suggested for the villain calling range is correct, we're bleeding chips. If I'm thinking right, his calling range should at least include AQ and AJ to make it worth while.

I also don't like the 4bet OOP here. Even if it's a bluff (which is an idea I actually like IP, as in the AQ example). If we 4bet bluff here and raise it to say 2.20, the pot is then 3.55 and the villain has to call 1.30. We're both left with 7.80, so he could very well make the call with any pair and try to hit that set against my "monster". And with the pot now 5.55 I'm left with the disgusting c-bet of around 2.80, leaving me half the stack I started with and still no idea what I'm up against.

In the AQ example, however, we are IP and bet 0.30. We get raised 0.90 by the BB. The pot is 1.25. We could now 4bet 2.20 against his "thinner" 3bet range making the pot 3.45. He has to call 1.30 more or jam. If he jams, it's an easy fold. If he calls, it'll be more difficult for him to get it all in if he flops a set and we might not even make c-bet making the post flop very difficult for him. So in this scenario I think it might actually be worth while to make this play with that A5s. What do you say?

And if you feel up to it, Bladesman87, I'd really like to hear what you have to say about those three original hand examples. I just hate it when people say that something is wrong, but don't say how it would be better

You can't own me because I have 4 combos of bluffs in my 4-betting range.

vs. unknowns:

I flat JJ vs. an UTG open and fold to a c-bet on an Axx flop. Usually call once on a K or Q high board, fold if there's two overs. I flat AK and QQ too in general. Playing similarly. Calling good/okay flops and folding bad ones. AK with backdoor draws and gutters can float sometimes as well.

With AQ I'd flat the 3-bet and keep all his dominated hands in. It's kind of gross to face a jam with AQ unless you're happy to snap it off (which I'm not), and it's one of your very best hands to defend against a 3-bet. Against that min 5-bet it's really close because of pot odds, but flatting can get us in a lot of trouble on Qxx boards.

yeah you are getting owned because i 5bet shove everytime over your 4bets and getting in and you have 4extra combos of bluffs while i have 0, so whos loosing more money you or me ?

sovo, what you may believe is ridiculous is likely you simply being naive.

explain how it's profitable to 4bet bluff if villain never folds to your 4bet bluffs ? and always has same legit hands that Hero will jam besides his 4bet bluffs.

Cool. And the UTG AK facing a 3bet from the BTN?