Both villains bought in short so they probably suck can't hand read etc...

Hand 1

SB Completes I check 84o

Flop J54r i bet 12 he calls
Turn 5 check check
River J i check he bets 36 i make it 88


Hand 2
Different villain

He raise t18 i call with A6o
Flop K89cc I check he checks back
Turn 8 I check he bets 25 I call
River 8c I check he bets 85 I shove for about 200 more.

1. yuck
2. yuck

Normally they suck I would think but since they cant read hands etc, i think they are fine b/c i doubt they are that strong.

Ya fwiw this is basically my thought process here against any semi competent villain I don't expect these to work but I'm 97% sure villains are only playing the strength of their own hands and they don't seem to be very strong here. FWIW Hand 1 I'd snap call with K high but I just hate to call and get shown 94.

I'm not really into 1, I think this is just begging for A-high to look it up.

2 I can dig, I would think any fullhouse or big hand would bet less on this river.

I'd usually just give up in hand 1, passive players will check behind a jack on the turn when the 5 pairs.. if he limped button with an A2/A3/A4 type hand and called flop with a gut shot or bottom pair, I think he'd be glad to take showdown with A high hands against your line that looks weak... I think he can only have something like 6-7/3-6/6-8 type hands with his line that you beat, but I think a J or a 5 is more likely

Also, if I was going to C/R the river, wouldn't a min C/R be enough since he won't call with his missed draws for any amount and likely doesn't have A high? I think 88 would be the same as 72 on this board in terms of folding out hands, except you save 16 when he pushes.

hand 1 is bad.
hand 2 is not as bad.. but still pretty bad.'

No need to get fancy vs shortstackers hu, it'll just get you in trouble

I like 1
2 zeebo says no

Eagles,

Usually these never work when I try them. People who suck usually talk themselves into calling anything they value bet the river with, but thats not always the case. I think 1 is okay to slightly bad, and 2 just cant be v profitable long term. I am sure there are better spots you could find to cr bluff the river, and these are not really the ideal stacks or opponents to be trying this on.

i really dont like either one. you know you didnt even make the first one 2.5x his bet. I wouldnt be surprised if you get called down by an A.

2- no one ever folds a boat, so if he folded, you had the best hand.

I think you guys are wrong about 1, lots of unknown but presumed donkish players will check A hi alot from what I've seen

I much prefer 1 to 2.

Still not wild about 1 though! When these guys full pot the river I find that they're strong a lot of the time. If I'd seen him play this could change though. If it wasn't for the size of his river bet I'd like this one a lot more.

I think 2 is terrible. I don't think you described villain, but if he is anything like villain 1 they rarely bet fold a river. You're saying that you're bluffing, so I assume you think he'll fold a boat? What boat does he bet/fold?

2 >>> 1 but 2 sucks imo

these are some of the worst readless hands youve ever posted. what do you want people to say? as a default theyre both absolutely terrible.

also random people who suck and buyin short typically are not the type of people you c/r bluff on the river... because they call...